Massive increase in material prices

[springcrocus]

Behold the two pieces of tube in the picture below, supplied by a well-known material supplier in the north east of England. On the left is an 11" length of 4.1/4" x 10swg copper tube for Calbourne's boiler. On the right is a 7" length of 1.1/4" x 16swg brass tube for the air reservoir. Quite a difference in size, as you can see. However, not in the cost.



The piece on the left cost £ 77.00 + VAT, the piece on the right cost an incredible £ 28.00 + VAT! I know prices have gone up but this is beyond belief. From £ 1.20 per inch to £ 4.00 per inch, a staggering 333% increase compared to last year's catalogue. Just for comparison, have a look at the next two photos. The first one shows the weight of the copper tube.

This shows the tube to weigh 2.736 Kgs which equates to £ 28.14p per kilo or £ 28,140 per tonne. Today's scrap price for clean, bright copper is about £ 7.00 per kilo so not too bad.

Now have a look at the brass tube.

This weighs in at 0.236 Kgs which equates to £ 118.64p per kilo or nearly £120,000 per tonne. A kilo of solid silver from the Royal Mint costs £ 693.00p and today's scrap price for brass is about £ 3.80 per kilo. Something is very wrong here but the company insists that the price is correct.

If this was an off-the-shelf item, I would have sent it back and demanded a refund but, because it is a cut length, I'm stuck with it. The fault was all mine for not checking that I had the latest cataloge, I just sent off an email with the purchase order assuming prices would be the same or similar to last years price. Costly mistake!

The moral of this sorry tale is to ALWAYS ask for a quote first and NEVER, NEVER, NEVER order materials without getting that quote first or you could be in for a very nasty shock.

Regards, (a very disgruntled and out-of-pocket) Steve

[jordanleeds]

Worth pointing out many material stockholders now will only guarantee a quote for 3 days such is the volatility of the market.
I had some 15 inch gauge buffer beams cut 18 months ago and they cost 75 pounds in 15mm s275 plate 2ft by 13 inches deep the same now has doubled in price to the point I've had to park the project in hope that steel prices plateau out and perhaps drop.

Bronze has gone up but copper bar stock has dropped marginally.

[andyhigham]

To add insult to the rise in the cost of metal
The closest track to my home is Moss Bank Park, a mammoth 1/2 mile 5" gauge track. At around 3am on Friday morning all bar 20 yards of the track was stolen.
A group of blokes in 2 transit vans, they told the night watchman on the fairground rides to stay in his caravan and keep quiet.

[springcrocus]

Yes, I agree that material prices are going through the roof and that is making scrap metal even more attractive to the thieves than ever before. However, my numbers are reasonably accurate and there is no way that brass is worth over a hundred grand per tonne.

Basically, I've been right royally screwed and I will be VERY wary about what I order from them again. I will want a quote in capital letters in case they decide to update their catalogue overnight and then charge me quadruple what was in the previous catalogue.

Regards, Steve

[dscott]

I got stung by a unit price from m. k. m.
No communications back telling me about this and he went and ordered.

I have just constantly got copper in for the next 10 years and brass.
And some part builds.
And 2 that turned up at the Club auction.
I have run out of room!!!

DIY timber and boards is the same. People will stop buying.

David and Lily.

[Nigel Bennett]

I've twice bought boiler tube before now and found that if I took a thicker gauge it would work out cheaper; it depends on when the stockholder got his stock in. So two of my locos have very strong boilers...

[melaser]

Unfortunately that's no surprise. Hot rolled and cold rolled steel jumped 300-500% last year, and has shown little sign of dropping up to now. Stainless and Brass also jumped significantly, although not as much, copper is on very short quote times. Last lot of bronze I ordered was on 24 hours quote

[SteveW]

It occurs to ask if there has been a clock-up. A typo has got you charged for solid rather than tube.

Second thought would a follow-up call to the supplier along the lines of " WTF! "

[quinta]

These prices are shown in the current price list and the discrepancy is surely because the expensive item is new stock and the cheaper item is old stock and the supplier hasn't tried to rip you off by increasing the price of old stock.

[SteveW]

Maybe there it an element of survival pricing here. We've have already been through some troubled times and the future isn't looking rosy. I guess our suppliers are going to get hit first. Perhaps this is just another iceberg tip.

The danger for us all being they need us as we need them. If both sides aren't careful the gilded goose's future will be at risk.

[Boadicea]

Jun 11, 2022 10:29:18 GMT SteveW said:

Maybe there it an element of survival pricing here. We've have already been through some troubled times and the future isn't looking rosy. I guess our suppliers are going to get hit first. Perhaps this is just another iceberg tip.
The danger for us all being they need us as we need them. If both sides aren't careful the gilded goose's future will be at risk.

I think there is some truth in this. I also think there has been some acceptance of the survival pricing.
I think it is unlikely customers will believe this as a valid reason reason for long though.

Those of us who have been through this high inflation evil before, can remember we are in the slow phase.
I have been to buy a Vauxhall Viva (can't think why!) and the bloke said "Well, if you don't buy it now, it will be 7% more in 3 months time"

I think there is another evil awaiting us - when it becomes fashionable, acceptable and expected to raise prices - and that's when it can really take off.
What can you do? Not a lot - if you want the stuff, apart from buy it now not later.

[jma1009]

Hi Steve,

For the vacuum reservoir, unless you are aiming to make a working Westinghouse air brake, you could make a dummy reservoir tank out of anything. A length of old iron/steel water pipe by way of example suitably turned down.

Cheers,
Julian

[mr swarf]

I have just had a quote from a stockholder and since my last order in 2020 brass bar is +100%, Stainless 303 is +100% & bronze pb102 is +50%.
Ouch.
Paul

[SteveW]

Not forgetting the Packing and Posting.

[springcrocus]

The other day I received the guillotined copper blanks for the rest of the boiler although I had some left over from the Britannia boiler. 2.3/4 kgs C101 for £60.50p including VAT and I organised collection with Evri for about £6.80p. Bit different to the brass tube but close, although cheaper, to the copper tube price. A pity this supplier doesn't do tube.

Regards, Steve

[theflyingscotsman]

i just paid £120 for 18" of 13g for maisies boiler, its going mad

[johnd]

Just purchased a length of brass hex, up about 30% in just a few months.

Just remembered something whilst at work, got a call from an inspector, he was told to empty the inspection store of all the spare microscope’s and put then in a skip. Went over to the inspection department and they had a 5cu.yd skip full. About 15 complete and working bench microscopes, i liberated one as i wanted the cast iron base. Once home i took off the base and chrome column and when unscrewing the column i was shocked to find that it was chrome plated brass about 11/4” diameter and 18” long. Rushed over the next day, the skip had gone. Forgot to mention that the bottom three feet of the skip was out of date soft solder. Yes i still use a roll of that.

[pault]

Unfortunately this is the norm now. Most metal suppliers will only hold a quote for 24 hours and I heard of one that will only quote over the phone, with the quote only being valid while you are on the phone.
Steel in large quantities has gone up by about 70% in the last year. Most of the increase results from the increase in gas and electricity costs. It takes something in excess of 6MWh of energy to produce a ton of ‘new steel’.
A colleague phoned two of our bronze suppliers and before he could say what size hex bronze he wanted was told they didn’t have any, and they did not have a date when they would have any. After a lot of phone calls he found a supplier who had 84 lengths in stock.
Shop around the prices are changing all the time and it will depend on when suppliers brought their stock

[springcrocus]

Many people have now mentioned price increases of 30%, 50%, 70%, even 100%. However, NOTHING has gone up 333%!! Basically, I've been ripped off with the brass tube and that's all there is to it. I won't trust that firm ever again and I reiterate my original warning. Get a quote and make sure they stick to it.

Regards, Steve

[jem]

Not only metal, I have a quot for collecting and filling my 50 ltr bottle with mixed gas for mig welding,370 euros, OK it is a big bottle, but even so.

Jem