5" Gauge Butch

[mightyradical]

I am putting together an order for a 5" gauge Butch locomotive and have pretty much got everything together in a list on order to buy everything I need to make a rolling chassis.

The only thing I am really missing from my order list at this point is the material to make the wheel axles. Unfortunatly my main order which includes the actual plans I need is still waiting for the castings to be manufactured and they will not be ready until the end of the month.

Does anyone know what size diameter round bar I need and approx length I will need to order. Also what material would be best I assume En8

Kind regards,

Dave

[ettingtonliam]

Whatever diameter and length it says on the drawing?

[chris vine]

I think the problem is that Dave doesn't yet have the plans.
One thought would be to tell your supplier that you won't be placing an order until they have sent you the plans. At least you will definitely get them and you can look through them all and see if anything else jumps out at you for your list...

All best wishes
Chris.

[oldnorton]

Small piece of image for you from the Butch drawings.

I think you need to get something larger than the 3/4" finish diameter as you will have to turn a true working face for the bearing surface. Preferably between the centres and at the same time as the wheel stubs so that it is all concentric.

[mightyradical]

Thank you so much my good sir.

I have placed an order for silver steel bar and got the springs as well so that was perfect thanks, I ordered slightly oversize to turn down as you suggested for a true fitment to machined axle boxes. Will have plenty to do now when everything arrives all in one order.

The problem I had is I have ordered the plans but they are being held for shipment because the castings are not ready yet and it will be end of Jan. I wanted to order the wheel axle material amongst other things so I have plenty to do when the castings arrive. This was perfect ta very much.

I know I could get them to send the plans and then castings but why pay mutliple shipment fee for small orders as these costs soon add up, far better to group everything into single package fee's. I hate wasting money that could be better spent on material.

Cheers for the information I appreciate it.

[firebird]

Hi.
It might be too late but if poss ask the supplier to send the plans rolled and and not folded. The creases can be very annoying. I have just completed Chub, the 0-4-0 version. I had the plans scanned and saved as a PDF. I can snip and print just the section I need as many times as I need without damaging the originals. Very useful, you can make your own notes on the print outs.
Anything I can help you with just send me a PM. Cheers
Rich

[mightyradical]

Thanks Rich,

I know the value of rolled plans. The last set of plans I recieved from sarik arrived rolled and I have brought solid extendable art tubes to place them in which will work out brilliant in both storage and transportation to the club whilst working on various items. I have quite the collection of blueprints now which is impressive but have choosen the butch 0-6-0 as my first build. I wanted a robust design that can be followed closely to the original plans without the need for many modifications to have a working model as I want to focus on the machining side of things, not used these skills since finishing my apprenticeship and they have never been used since. I also considered the fact I wanted a weekly workhorse rather than a showpiece twice a year track runner which will be my second attempt at a build of which I am leaning towards a manor design.

Sadly I was working at the depot and very busy when they called me to which end I forgot to specify rolled plans, they have already been posted and arrive in the morning along with my first bunch of castings and materials to get started so I have no doubt I expect they will arrive folded but will be put the in the tube I have for them and do my best to remove the crease lines over time - it is what it is. I will probably mention to EKP next time im on the phone they should offer a rolled plan service additionally. I think sarik charge like an extra £10 for this which I am always happy to pay for.

The chub is very similar and uses most of the same castings, well done on getting over the finish line.

Thankyou for the offer of help and advice, half the fun of this hobby is talking to others whilst discussing different methods of getting over that finish line. I am sure there will be things to discuss on the way and will be sure to ask them here out in the open where everyone can see and benefit from the Q&A's.

[Neale]

My plans for a Black 5 are a mix of rolled and folded but in both cases, I had them copied on a large-format scanner to PDF. This means I can select individual components to print on A4 sheets which are what are used in the workshop as required. These are disposable although once used, their backs are reused for scribbling notes! I don't do this very often as I am redrawing in 3D CAD as I go as I CNC machine a lot of components but the small versions still get used and originals are still in their tubes or envelopes with no oily fingerprints! If there is no print shop handy, try a local architect as these offices often have large-format scanners and printers.

[mightyradical]

So I recieved from kennions rolled plans in a poster tube without having asked for this. Fantastic.
Hornblocks, axle boxes, 6 wheels and a pump stay.. should keep me going for a few months before the next order of castings.
Just waiting on some raw stock to arrive now,

[firebird]

Hi.
Nice to know the plans were rolled.
A good mate of mine and fellow model engineer just bought a part built loco which came with a set of faded, folded plans. He ironed them between brown paper to get rid of the creases then stuck them to his glass patio door so that they were backlit. With his camera set up on a tripod each sheet was photographed and the digital image transferred to the pc and saved as a PDF. They are perfectly clear. As Neale said the relevant piece can be clipped and printed for workshop use.

Cheers

Rich

[JonL]

I tend to take photos of the relevant bit of the plans I'm interested in (I only make one bit at a time!) so the plans stay clean in the house. Then I can look at the bit I'm interested in in the workshop on my phone.

[oldnorton]

It could be suggested that plans are there to be used and enjoyed. Get them (slightly) dirty, write pencil comments on them, let them become part of the build. :-)

[mightyradical]

I took digital photos off all the individual parts and printed some of them off at the depot this morning whilst working. These A4 sheets of individual parts are perfect to take to the club, make notes on and get dirty. They will stay with the loco in a binder so best of both worlds as I always have the clean masters if I ever need to refer to them again.

Strangely I even think that I understand most of the schematics despite not really having much drawing reading experience, I like working in imperial coming from aerospace this is what I learnt first. The brake configuration caught me out and got me muddled at first, but well I assumed all 6 wheels had blocks. Now realise it is only leading and trailing, depsite the casting having 6 blocks, guess some spares are not a bad thing.. I notice many butch builds have not bothered with the brakes and also run modified pumps but I will stick to the plans.

There are some pretty complicated items overall, but well that is the fun I guess and will cross those bridges as I arrive at them and split big problems into multiple smaller ones. I take no shame in saying I have just gone ahead and ordered a bunch of connecting rods pre cut, somethings are best left for the next project. I wil still need to make all the bushes anyway.

The piston covers, i think it was the back end covers look mighty fun uggh. Well I will now wait for my stock material, laser cuts and club membership to arrive which is paid but waiting approval, then give you all an update as to how it goes.

[chris vine]

I should think that any club that turned down a new member would be a strange, and soon to be extinct, club…
Chris

[firebird]

Hi. With the plans saved as a pdf it's easy to clip the part you want . Using one of the many drawing programmes out there it can be very accurately sized to an exact size and printed out. Then spray glued to the material saves a lot of marking out. I use a programme called Inkscape which is open source and free to download and install. An example of the method I use is shown here. I needed to make a former for the smokebox for CHUB from MDF. 4 pieces glued together.





Cheers

Rich

[kelvin]

A question re the tank connections where the drawings lack detail. Five connections in the back of the tanks are required. Three at 5/16 for bypass, feed to pump and feed to injector but two at 7/16 are also provided. I assume these are for the tank equalising pipes but, where are the pipes run? I assume under the cab floor?

[oldnorton]

When I got my Butch, in as-built, unstreamed condition, there was a water tank balance pipe running between the bottom of the tanks, curving under the boiler. However, the drawing does not show any outlets at the bottom of the tanks. The under-boiler balance pipe on mine was very difficult to remove and refit so I took it off.

The drawings do show two outlets at the bottom rear of each tank as you describe. I agree that is a left and right for axle pump and injector, then the remaining pair for a balance pipe. I ran the balance pipe around the top of the cab floor up against the rear bunker. You could drop it below the floor but need to think about access to the grate.

You will need to tee in the hand pump supply somewhere and this can be from the axle pump supply pipe. Or, if the balance pipe runs past the rear bunker you can tee off to the hand pump, which is what I have done.

Norm

[Doug]

The pipework for the tanks and pumps are quite complex and very difficult to get on and off if you want let me know I can photo my pipework and post it although it may be on here already as I posted years ago. Also to consider once built the chimney as by the drawing is way too big and works much better with a sleeve to reduce the diameter to about 22mm. I modified mine and it steamed much better. Another very difficult problem is the fire grate getting that in and out is just horrible not impossible but just really difficult.
Have fun with it it’s a great little engine overall.

[Doug]

Nov 15, 2024 14:17:51 GMT Doug said:

The pipework for the tanks and pumps are quite complex and very difficult to get on and off if you want let me know I can photo my pipework and post it although it may be on here already as I posted years ago. Also to consider once built the chimney as by the drawing is way too big and works much better with a sleeve to reduce the diameter to about 22mm. I modified mine and it steamed much better. Another very difficult problem is the fire grate getting that in and out is just horrible not impossible but just really difficult.
Have fun with it it’s a great little engine overall.

Yep found it have a look at (restoring “Butch”0,6,0 tank loco)

[kelvin]

Thanks, very helpful. This one came to me as partly completed and with a set of drawings.