searching info on "White No 3 Type 23A" injector

[johan]

Plodding on with my design of the Kerr Stuart loc. From the piping plan I see that the injector mounted was a "White No 3 Type 23A". I tried Google but this turns up nothing relevant. And there isn't any visible on the photos I could find.

Can someone here shed a light on this? It would be a start if I knew if it was a vertical or horizontal one.

[flyingfox]

What design of Kerr Stuart locomotive are you working on. If it is a Wren, or other small sized model, then the loco injector design for the Wren is horizontal, with valves attached.
Regards
Brian B

[mbrown]

"Tattoos", "Thames" and I think "Brazils" had the same kind of injector as the "Wren" - i.e. mounted on the clack with the steam valve integral - but usually mounted on the backhead rather than the side of the boiler as with the "Wren".

Malcolm

[johan]

It is the one on the cover of "Kerr, Stuart Water-Tube Boiler Geared Drive Steam Locomotives". It's the 3 axle version that was never build. But the 2-axle was build No's 4412, 4420, 4462-63 and 4469. But they would have used the same boiler and ancillaries.

[jma1009]

I think from memory that Kerr Stuart and Co used Gresham and Craven injectors on their locos. I recall something about Merddin Emrys Double Fairlee on the Ffestiniog still having original “Whyte’s” injectors but these were subsequently found to be Holden and Brooke “Sirius” injectors.

Unless you are going to make your own injectors you will have to work around the best that the trade currently offers.

I’m not too well up on Kerr Stuart stuff. I do recall a Wren class Kerr Stuart in the old Birmingham museum. There must be an archive of Kerr Stuart drawings somewhere? With the Hunslet archives? (Sorry, I haven’t checked this out this evening).

[mbrown]

Some years ago, the Kerr Stuart drawings - or at least a high proportion of them - were at the Leeds Industrial Museum at Armley. But they were mostly uncatalogued - and I believe that was being done very slowly by a volunteer. I'm not sure of the current state of play, but maybe worth an approach.

Malcolm

[johan]

Sept 1, 2024 21:54:48 GMT jma1009 said:

I think from memory that Kerr Stuart and Co used Gresham and Craven injectors on their locos. I recall something about Merddin Emrys Double Fairlee on the Ffestiniog still having original “Whyte’s” injectors but these were subsequently found to be Holden and Brooke “Sirius” injectors.

Unless you are going to make your own injectors you will have to work around the best that the trade currently offers.

I’m not too well up on Kerr Stuart stuff. I do recall a Wren class Kerr Stuart in the old Birmingham museum. There must be an archive of Kerr Stuart drawings somewhere? With the Hunslet archives? (Sorry, I haven’t checked this out this evening).

Thanks. I have come across the "Sirius" injectors while searching. I'll go back there and take a better look. Now, as the original was never build I do have some discretion. The drawings are also not that detailed and the photos don't show it either. Maybe I'm getting to obsessed with it...

I don't know yet if I'll make one or just buy one. We have a club member that is very into injectors, he has made a lot of them from plans he find and then test them, improving on it etc. I contacted him and he is going to bring some along at the open day next weekend. Guess I'll know everything I never wanted to know about injectors next week

Sept 2, 2024 6:19:28 GMT mbrown said:

Some years ago, the Kerr Stuart drawings - or at least a high proportion of them - were at the Leeds Industrial Museum at Armley. But they were mostly uncatalogued - and I believe that was being done very slowly by a volunteer. I'm not sure of the current state of play, but maybe worth an approach.

Malcolm

I'm not very lucky in getting replies that way. I asked already such things, never got a reply. Guess they are more busy restoring then answering email. So I have given up trying that.

[weary]

Hi Johan,

I got some drawings via Armley Mills museum collection three years ago. Manning-Wardle drawings in my case. Given the time elapsed since my experience the following may not be relevant .... but ya never know!

My initial contact was via: [e-mail] & then: john.mcgoldrick(put 'at symbol' here)leeds.gov.uk (I do not know if this second 'personal' email is still 'live'.)
John McGoldrick was the 'Curator of Industrial History, Leeds Industrial Museum' at Armley at the time, and according to his 'linkedIn' profile remains in the position, but it may also be worth researching current holders of that and similar positions, adapting their names in the same style as in the email address above and emailing them too in the event of 'no response' etc!

However; Armley Mills responded that many of their drawings were on loan to the Statfold Narrow Gauge Trust located at the Statfold Barn Railway, where I eventually sourced the (Manning Wardle) drawings I was seeking. I don't know if the same will apply to any remaining Kerr Stuart drawings, but it may be worth enquiring.

Statfold Barn Railway emails: [e-mail] & : [e-mail]

BUT, NB, that I eventually made contact with 'Statfold Narrow Gauge Trust' through the following email: James (put 'at symbol' here) statfold.com (Once again I do not know if this 'personal' email is still active). James Gorton was, and remains, a director of Statfold Narrow Gauge Museum Trust Ltd.

All I can diplomatically write is that in my experience significant perseverance is required at every stage to establish initial contact. One may have some luck with phone calls - which I never tried.

Best of luck in your researches,

Phil