WR 4500 locos

[Garry]

Hello, can anyone tell me if the tank tops on the GWR prarie locos was slightly inset from the inner and outer tank sides ie lower down giving a small lip all around or were they flush with the sides? Also were they painted green as per body colour or black when in BR days?

Thanks
Garry

[Phil Sutton]

I think you will find that there is a small lip on all GWR tank locos(except the pannier tanks),you can check if you can find a suitable photo of the loco you require.

Phil

[Geoff]

Hi Garry,

There are some good photos of Pannier Tank engines in JH Russell's 'Pictorial Record of Great Western Engines', Volume 2, from page 138 onwards (44XX Class - 55XX class)

There is a raised edge on the outside and front of the tanks, but the inner (top) edge is flush with the boiler. From the texture of the B and W photos, it would appear that tank tops were the same colour as the loco, ie green.

the raised lip is capped with what appears to be a half round beading. Hope this is of some help to you.

Regards

Geoff

[Garry]

Thanks Geoff and Phil, a lot of people have confirmed similar except top should be black.

Garry

[Phil Sutton]

Just had a look on my 1945-1948 colour data sheet,it says "Tank tops Black,as is all tank top equipment"
I guess BR Green liveried Tanks would probably follow GWR Swindon traditions,ie black tops,and Black liveried Tanks would be black anyway!

Phil

[Garry]

Thanks Phil, its the info I needed,

Garry

[Garry]

Hi, can anyone please tell me the easiest way to set the valve timing on Western Region engines with the inside Stephensons valve gear? I have got mine to work reasonably well through trial and error but would like to get it better. Outside Walcharts was not a problem as I could see where the various parts of the motion were and work out the relative positions.

Garry

[Phil Sutton]

Now then Garry,this is a bit of a tall order.I have just consulted a book ok loco valves and valve gear and there are 9 pages on setting Stevenson valve gear,including dioagrams,so simple it aint!However,I believe that if you can connect some tubes to thedrain cocks,and put the ends in a jar(s)of water,as the valves open you see bubbles of air,which ought to be easier than trying to listen to it hissing out of the exhaust.I assume that the ends of the valve rods are threaded so you can adjust their legth and hence the opening and closing points.I rather think though, you need someone with more experience than me to go through it with you.Are you a member of an ME society?I'm sure there would be some one who could help you and show you on your loco,then you'll be sorted for another time.

Good luck

Phil

[Phil Sutton]

Further to my previous post,if you go to Nigel FraserKer's website (via Sharpo's World)A chap there has built a 4500,maybe he would be able to talk you through it.

Phil

[Garry]

Thanks Phil, I have been in touch with this person about other things and never thought to ask him about the valve setting. The spindles are threaded but to get it to run I had to unscrew them quite a long way so I will need to reposition the valve bobbins further up the spindle to give me more thread contact again. The problem is I have put a locknut on and it does not leave much room between the valve crosshead and the valve end cover. The boiler passed its hydraulic test at 200psi on Sunday, Modelworks never sent a certificate and dont reply to my letters again, so we had to do it as a new boiler. It does give me more confidence with testing it to that pressure though.

Garry

[Phil Sutton]

Garry,make sure your bobbins are the right way round,my piston heads were drilled wrongly and I had to re drill them and open the counter bore slightly to make them work.I also had to thread the valve rods further up,after removing about 3/4" from the ends.This of course was for the 1400, your loco will no doubt be different.
Is there any way you could counterbore the end of the bobbin to inset the locknut,and give yourself a bit more room at the cylinder end cover?
If it's any consolation,some of Winsons boilers weren't much cop,with leaks all over the place,some really bad.However I must have been lucky,as mine passed ok,but I didn't put any faith in Winsons boiler cert.Much better to have an independant test at the end of the day,I think.Nice Loco though.

[Garry]

Hi Phil, the bobbins are symmetrical and have a nut and lock nut at each end to hold them in place on the spindle. It is not these that are likely to foul the end cover it is the nut on the outside where the spindle fastens into the rocker arm crosshead to prevent it working loose. I think the difference between yours and mine is that yours is a slide valve whereas mine is a piston valve. The pistons counterbore's are okay giving an equal distance at each end of the cylinders. You said you had to remove 3/4" from your rods but with this loco the original piston rods were 10mm short but replacement ones of correct size were included in a later kit (luckily I got all the kits at the same time so used the proper ones), no doubt someone told them about it. My A4 had 3 rods all too long and I had to re-machine them. A friend of mine has a Winson Pug and we found out recently that his rods were too long when one was bent in full forward position. How they get these rods the wrong length is beyond me when they supposedly build a control model.

Garry