Caledonian Blue

[mott]

Hi. I am completing a 3 1/2 inch gauge Rob Roy Loco. It should be painted in Caledonian Blue, but what is this colour? Is it Prussian Blue, or Royal Blue or Sky Blue? Any thought on where I can get an authentic photo of a Rob Roy Dock engine?
Best regards Mott.

[the_viffer]

Strictly I think it should be black. I am not aware that they were ever in blue.

However don't let anyone stop you from painting it the colour you want. My advice if anyone makes an issue of it is to say that is how you like it. It is also instructive to enquire how many locos the questioner has made and which awards they won.

The CR blue depended upon the works. One works, I forget which now, mixed white in the blue resulting in by many accounts a much brighter blue.

I would get the paint from Pheonix Precision. I think transfers are also available from them as well as Reeves 2000 and others.

I have a number of photos of these tanks in BR days. If they are of any use let me know.

[jackrae]

If you go to the caledonian railway website at www.crassoc.org.uk there's a picture of a crest in Wymess Bay station which may - or may not - be the correct colour. Since it must be well over half a century since the company disappeared i would imagine the crest has had at least a couple of coats of paint in that time - each, no doubt, to the whim of the paint-mixer of the day.

Seemingly all locos running on the old caledonian railway were painted "caly" blue

Although the original caly ran from carlisle to edinburgh and Glasgow it also seemed to stretch its arms, part of which took it across the Solway at Annan. My connection with this claim to fame was that my father, who was a fisherman, acted as safety boat during demolition of the Solway viaduct.

I also see that Landrover have a line of vehicles painted in what they call caledonian Blue but I know not if it is true to the original colour.

regards

jack

[jackrae]

Colour Update

Seemingly the Caledonian railway based its colour on the same blue that exists in the saltire flag of Scotland. technically that is the same blue which appears in the union flag - which is quite a deep blue - not the relatively pale blue that appears on the wymess bay plaque

That should open up a debate

Jack

[jackrae]

And this is my final word on the matter - unless of course you know better

If you go to ebay and look at sales 5959835182 and 5956683184 you'll see a pair of identical locos painted in totally different colours of blue, both of which are claimed to be Caledonian Blue.

I find it hard to believe that a light blue would be used by us Scots ( a bit too tacky) and would suggest that the darker of the two colours might be nearer the mark.

You've certainly opened a can of worms with this one
jack

[the_viffer]

Have a look at www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~jim_smellie/css/assets/pdfs/cl1pn.pdf

which confirms my assertion that these locos were black.

However if you want a blue one have a blue one and choose the blue you fancy.

In answer to Jack's last point as I've said the CR used different blues depending on the amount of white added: both the ebay locos could be correct.

[the_viffer]

No matter how I try I can't get the message to say "...confirms my assertion..."

[the_viffer]

It is doing it again.

Confirms


my



assertion

[Tel]

Aw Tim, 'confirms my assertion'?

I thought it sounded better the other way

[Tel]

hey, it does it to me too

[the_viffer]

weird huh? I thought I was sober for a bit when it happened to me the first time.

[mott]

Thanks for replies. Especiallty Viffer as I would like a photo of a Rob Roy if you could send me via e mail. Phoenix Paints started this hare running by offering 3 different blues. I will opt for the darker one.I have seen several models on display and they use a range of blues which may include the Caly Passenger livery, but as you say " its my loco so ........" The darker colour is winning over the light blue.
Has anyone any other comments on the Rob Roy, especially its steaming capability. I have had my engine in steam , but not yet on the track?
Mott

[the_viffer]

Well ping your email to [e-mail] and I'll see what I can do. Remind me when I forget.

Pretty well all 3.5" gauge are, in my view, a challenge (ie fun) to drive but as they go a Rob Roy is one of the easier. Just don't expect to pull 15 adults on a hilly and windy track.

[David Thompson]

The Caledonian Prussian Blue was very dark indeed, and was used up to about 1903. Then they let it down with white because it used to fade anyway. Perth and Polmadie allegedly used different proportions of white, so the shade varied, but it still faded so you can have almost any blue you want. This later blue is called Sky Blue, but I don't recommend Phoenix's paint of this colour because it is a rather grey blue and not very impressive. I would imagine that Caledonian engines were always impressive.

Caledonian 123 was re-painted by the LMS in the 30s, by the one time Caledonian paint shop foreman. This is a much healthier blue than some you see. I got a very similar colour which pleased me by using Phoenix LMS Light Blue for an O gauge model. There is a picture now in the Images section so you can judge for yourself.

Some black and white photos look very light indeed, but I believe this might be due to the emulsion sensitivity, similar to the way blue sky and clouds merge if you don't use a yellow filter. I think Sky Blue should be the colour of a really rich blue sky.

In 1922, the new Pickersgill 4-4-0s were painted a distinctly ultramarine colour, but only these locos had it. This is the shade sometimes referred to as Royal Blue.

And yes, goods engines should be black, but don't let that stop you. Some had lining and red coupling rods, but only passenger locos and mixed traffic locos with the Westinghouse brake were blue.

[spurley]

Isn't it incredible how much interest there is in what colour an engine is painted regardless of size?!?! I was a working member of the Bluebell through the 70's and 80's and led the team who restored the North London Tank. All was amicable until the project was reaching the conclusion and a livery debate started among the members of the team, it was decided by the simple expedient of a vote by the more active members who chose black (not a great deal of choices actually given the type of chimney, boiler etc) and the wording British Railways 58850 in full on the tank sides. This was later changed to LMS 27505 following some years in service. I strongly agree with the member who stated that as it is your engine you should paint it whichever colour you choose. It's only a coat of paint after all! Just be ready for the nit pickers to get in on the action later though.

If anyone is interested in a real livery debate however, take a look at the Bluebell group on Yahoo and see the endless discussions regarding the present appearance of the LBSCR E4 0-6-2T in lined BR black as 473! The amount of effort and righteous (or otherwise) indignation expended in this subject would surely have restored several other engines and completed the extension to East Grinstead I would imagine!! Still each to their own I suppose, pity the 'liveryists' do not subscribe to this attitude.

Cheers

Brian