Super Simplex Frames

[jones]

Hi,

I have just purchased some black mild steel for the frames but because here in Australia we have gone metric the steel is 3mm thick, which is almost 7 thou thinner than the 1/8" plate called for. What allowances will I have to make for this? I know that the frame stretchers will need to be 7 thou wider, but other than that what is there?

Also, one of the pieces is slightly twisted. Someone has told me that the frame stretchers should bend it back sufficiently to function but this person doesn't know very much about model locomotives (my dad ). Will the frame stretchers fix it? Or will I have to flatten it? And if so, how is that done?

Regards
Andrew

[ron]

Andrew, it's the same problem in this country, as far as I can see 3mm is all you can get, you just have to make allowances for it in the stretchers and the buffer beams, I think as the build progresses you'll find more metric/imperial problems, I've just had to modify the firehole ring size slightly because the copper tube supplied is metric.
If the frame is slightly twisted I would be inclined to try tweaking it gently until it's as near straight as you can manage and let the stretchers and buffer beams complete the job for you when it's bolted up.
Ron

[baggo]

Hi Andrew,

I agree with Ron that it would be best to try and get the frame material flat before you start. Use of a soft hammer on a flat surface often works quite well. It can be a tricky job getting the assembled frames square at the best of times. If the frames are bent to begin with you'll have a devil of a job as the bent frame will pull everything else out of line. You may find that the frames will distort slightly anyway when you cut out the hornslots so a bit of straightening will be needed again.
In a similar vein check that the angle used to fasten the buffer beams to the frames is dead square otherwise that will pull the frames out of line when the beams are bolted on.

John

[jones]

Hi again,

Good news, I managed to get the frames almost completely flat, as far as I can tell. The twist was uniform along the entire length so I put the bottom of the frames in a vice and used a piece of wood with a slot cut in it to twist the frames back. It took around 2 twists to get each of them flat and now I can start cutting!

However, I have another question. I think that cutting both frames at the same time would be the quickest and easiest way to get identical frames. How do I stick them together? Do I use lots of small g-clamps, or soldering, or epoxy? I will also ask some people at the next club meeting.

Thank you very much for all your help.
Andrew

[greasemonkey]

Hi Andrew
Mark one out ,clamp both together, and then drill a couple of the holes that you can put bolts through. That way you don't risk them moving in the subsequent ops or have clamps getting in the way.

Andy

[jones]

Hi Andy,
Thank you so much! I can't believe I didn't think of that. It's so simple. Now all I have to do is buy some bolts, and I'm off! Since I don't have a DRO (yet) and I don't quite trust the dials on the mill-drill I will probably use a dial indicator on the table for most measurements. The marking out is just to stop me doing something really stupid (which is quite likely).

Andrew

[lancelot]

Hello Andrew,
I have found ''Super Glue'' to be one of the most useful tools in my ''shed'' , where parts have to be held together on a temporary basis, it holds very well allowing light drilling or spotting through operations to be performed, the parts are easily separated with a thin bladed tool....Andys right about the temporary bolts, you also can use soft iron rivets and later remove them.
Happy building,
John.

[Chris Kelland]

Hi All,

If I have to join two pieces of 'material' on a temporary basis you can't beat carpet tape. About 2 inches wide and used for putting foam back carpet down.

Most books on loco construction point out the dangers of getting the frames sheared to size from a sheet of plate, about 1/8 inch of the sheared edge is unusable and the metal is usually twisted. I didn't want to get involved in any black magic ( stress relieving and normalizing) as I am none to sure about the processes involved. I opted to get laser cut frames for my SS.


Chris.

[jones]

Hi again,

John, super glue sounds doable. It doesnt need to be overly strong because when I mill it the metal will be clamped to the table, on parallels to stop me cutting the table. I may even make a sacrificial plate out of alluminium.
Chris, I would sure like some laser cut frames but I'm afraid it may break the bank. Im still a student and as such I don't have a lot of spare cash. I am going to buy the castings for the wheels, but all other castings look as though they can be fabricated. Doing this I should be able to scrounge up enough money for the boiler (WOW, look at those copper prices go!).

Andrew

[Deleted]

Pardon my ignorance on this I am new to this game and am contemplating a Simplex as a very first project. I have been offered a chassis for a standard Simplex for very little money but having talked to many and read the articles I think am going to go for the Super Simplex. can anyone tell me if the standard Simplex frames will be OK for a Super Simplex.

[ron]

Hi
Unfortunately not, apart from detail differences Super Simplex frames are longer and slightly deeper.
Ron

[Deleted]

Heck that was quick.
Just posted another question on the same subject, the question now is do I compromise for the sake of a huge benefit in cost and go for the standard simplex?

[John Lee]

See my reply on your other topic... ;D

It's not much of a compromise, the standard ones run very well.

Yes, you get quick answers here... sometimes not what you expect though

[Shawki Shlemon]

Hi Andrew
Mark one , drill a few holes where they should be , clamp both frames together,rivet or bolt and then cut / file/mill both frames . When separated the holes are in correct places .

[spurley]

Hi all

Reference the post above about using super glue as a temporary fix when drilling parts etc. This is a great tip but I have been warned about the fumes that can come from this stuff if it is heated. You may heat the parts to seperate them or maybe they will be heated during soldering/welding operations. I believe it contains an 'isocyanate' which will produce a vapour laced with cyanide. I'm not necessarily saying not to do this but please be aware that if significant amounts are used and then heated you could make yourself, or anyone else in the vicinity, ill.

Don't want to lose any members off this site!

Cheers

Brian

[Peter W.]

Re Twisted frames. (Only just noticed this thread 8-(

Andrew solved his problem with wood, but I thought it
worth mentioning the following ...

After cutting the axle slots in 5" tender frames, I had
twists in various directions ! Put the frames in a large
vice, got two 3/16" x 1" x 2" offcuts either side of the
frame, then clamped a large molegrip around the three widths.
GENTLY pulled the molegrip etc. and eventually got everything
straight again.
Checked straightness with square, angle plates & surface plate.

P.S. That got the frames correct vertically. The slight (now
uniform) curves in the other direction were indeed pulled
in by the stretchers etc.