Brakes on Standard Simplex

[ron]

I've been giving a bit of thought to fitting brakes to the standard Simplex using the Super Simplex as a pattern as it would be easier to drill the frames now rather than once the chassis is complete.
It looks quite easy to do on the four rear wheels but more difficult on the front ones due to the position of the cylinders, would I be out of line fitting brakes to the rear four wheels only and forgetting about the front pair, these aren't really all that visible anyway.
I'm assuming brakes like these are only really parking brakes and not used for seriously stopping the loco??
Any thoughts on the subject?
Ron

[spurley]

Hi Ron

The North London Tank, LMS 27505/BR 58850, on the Bluebell Railway is, as I suppose you already know, an 0-6-0T and has braking on the driving axle and the trailing axle only. The leading axle is too close to the cylinder to fit a brake hangar, brake shoe etc. The engine was vacuum braked and also had a hand brake. She was classified by BR as 2F which would demand not ony power but good brakes. She was used on shunting, freight and occasional passenger workings (hence the vac brake) and as such was not only a powerful hauler she also had an effective braking system. So your idea of on braking two axles on an 0-6-0T is prototypical. As an aside engine braking in these scales is only as effective as the adhesive weight of the engine so, in practice, is not much use for actual train braking, this generally being taken care of by the brakes on the passenger car(s) either by hand or continuous if you're 'posh'.

Another 'angle' is that the Simplex is a freelance design and, as this will be your engine, can be modified to any degree you feel fit. You can quote the North London as an example of your braking idea as a prototype if 'rivet counters' make any comment!

Cheers

Brian

[ron]

Cheers Brian, you're last sentence sounds good to me, 4 wheel brakes it will be, if it's good enough for the LMS it's good enough for me. ;D

Ron

[spurley]

Hi Ron

Should have done this yesterday, a picture paints a thousand words:



See what I mean?

And just to prove I had something to do with it:



I am the youthful chap shaking hands with Micahel Palin !

Cheers

Brian

[chameleonrob]

As I understand it you get the same stopping power if you had one brake block on one wheel or two blocks on each of the six wheels as long as the brake cylinder is the same as in the mechanical advantage. what happens when one of six coupled wheels is locked up? true it would take six times the force to lock it up but as the brake force is concentrated on one wheel and not on six it cancels out. I wouldn't go to the extreme of one brake block as it would concentrate the wear and the forces have to be transmitted through the coupling rod but with four of six wheels braked it wouldn't be a problem. as an aside it does reduce the desirably of compensated brake gear as it does even out wear etc., without it you get the same stopping power but this won't decrease or fail entirely if (for example) a brake block falls off.

rob

[spurley]

Hi Rob

The locomotive I have cited as an example of 'four wheel' braking was built in 1880 with this arrangement. The only modification was the addition of vacuum braking, installation of ejector and brake cylinder operating on the original linkages. It worked until retirement in 1964 for the NLR, LNWR, LMS and BR before a futher 20 years operation (with gaps for restoration etc) in preservation at the Bluebell Railway without any problem (braking wise!). I would say that this is an indictment of this type of braking and by it's nature a coupled engine will 'share' braking effort through the rods.

Cheers

Brian

[fostergp6nhp]

I know this is an ancient thread but 4 out of 6 wheel braking is also what was fitted to the 1951 built trio of bagnall loco's for Margam steelworks, numbers 2994/5/6. They were modern machines with rocking grates, hopper ashpans? & roller bearings.

[doubletop]

Read this thread and it motivated me to get on with making some brakes for my Simplex while doing the refurbishment.

Made all the parts



Used my homebrew flycutter on the blocks. I used 1.5" hex steel as I didn't have any suitable CI. It proved to be the most economic used of material as the angle at the back of the block is 120deg. Two x 3/8" slices makes 4 blocks all flycut in one go.



Installed the standard



and the brakes



There is certainly no room to fit the standard brakes on the front wheels. It may be possible to get something smaller in there but would need the cylinders out to be able to fit and install. I'll stick with 4 wheel brakes.

Pete

[angleseyrailway]

Besides the brakes! what an accomplished piece of work!

Daniel

[doubletop]

Daniel

Thanks but I can only take the credit for putting it back to the way it was when it was first built, plus a few additional features. Fortunately the two guys who made it knew what they were doing and I didn't have the problems of others with second hand locos. I could see the condition of it when I purchased it and was happy to do what I needed to get it back to a reasonable state.

I've done a bit of a write up here, in all it took about six months once I got going.

www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,290.0.html

Pete

[dj]

Hi guys

Sorry to revert to my acerbic self of before, but Ron asked the question 6 years ago and from the pictures he sent me of his Simplex he fitted brakes and has been running it for years.

DJ

[jma1009]

i dont see what the problem is with fitting 6 brake shoes to the rear of the wheels! i vaguely recall doing the same to a SUPER SIMPLEX many years ago - it ceased to be a semi-permanent part of my workshop an equally long time ago! doubletop's method of machining the brake shoes is excellent... ive made mine the hard way on various locos with a file and a gauge in the vice! i must give full credit to doubletop for the excellent work he has done in overhauling his SIMPLEX, and look forward to pics of it in steam very soon!
cheers,
julian

[doubletop]

Julian

Thanks for the kind words; Compared to many I'm relatively new to this game so its nice to know my efforts are appreciated.

I had thought of putting the brakes to the rear of the wheels but realised that would have required stiffer push rods instead of the 1/8" pull rods so mostly stuck to the original plans. The Super Simplex frames are longer which makes it easier to accommodate the front mounted brakes on all wheels. The four wheel brakes are proving perfectly adequate for holding it stationary on the steaming bay, rather than it threatening to roll off, which is the way it felt without them.

DJ

I think you answered your own question. Isn't the point of these threads the provision of reference material for others doing a similar thing. LBSC may have designed these brakes over 60 years ago, Martin Evans continued with it 30 years later and Ron asked his question 6 years ago but people are still making brakes for Simplex locos and are possibly seeking information. I do know of another 2 standard Simplex's being worked on that require brakes, no doubt there are others.

regards

Pete

[jma1009]

peter,
if you fit a hand brake with a slotted pull rod, and an extra arm on the rear brake shaft you can then fit a steam brake which will be a most useful addition!
i also dont see any reson why an old thread shouldnt be up-dated, and as you have correctly stated, the pics you have provided will be of invaluable help to current builders of SIMPLEX (though my own view would be to build something better than 'COMPLEX'! ;D)
cheers,
julian