Do it Yourself Steel Boilers

[S.D.L.]

How do people interpret the rules on steel boilers.

Can someone weld there own or does the welder have to be coded. I can see no reference to a requirement for this in the southern fed booklet.

Comments please

Steve Larner

[alanstepney]

Way back, the rules allowed us to weld our own boilers.
That didnt prevent the insurance companies from having and enforcing their own rules, so for larger boilers (where steel is most often used) this often ment having them made by a qualified welder. Or in my case, producing sample welds, and having those in the boiler tested.

Then things changed so that a similar arrangement became mandatory.

Recently, the rules have been relaxed, but only slightly.
Few clubs are willing to test and accept responsibility for steel boilers, so in that case, it is back to whoever insures them.
In most cases they will want to see that they have been welded by a "coded" welder. You can, however, do all the preparation yourself, thus saving time and cost.
If they are willing to allow you to weld it yourself, expect to have to produce test welds, and have ultrasonic (or other) tests of those on the boiler.

As it is outside most Southern (and Northern) fed rules, it wont be covered in their information.

My personal view is that it is best to get a steel boiler made, or welded, professionally, even though, as noted above, I once made one myself.

[S.D.L.]

My view is that it should only be done by a coded welder.

But if the club boiler inspector says that he can inspect one and the club insurance is through the fed, what happens then?

Does the model owner have to have his own insurance which forces the issue?


Steve Larner

[peterhill]

I am having a code boiler built for my 2 in Minne, here in the USA.
will do the prep work my self and have a boiler shop weld it, that way i get a ASME stamp on it.
That way i can run in any state i want to. Here in Minnesota you do not want to go above 100psi, if you do you have to take a traction engineer,s test and get a license to run.

peter hill

ps i do hold the Minnesota license

[stantheman]

Does page 15 appendix A of the Southern Federation's Red Book not go some way to explaining their position on this initial question about any reference.

[S.D.L.]

Jul 9, 2008 9:03:28 GMT @stantheman said:

Does page 15 appendix A of the Southern Federation's Red Book not go some way to explaining their position on this initial question about any reference.

Sort of, but what makes the average club boiler inspector who has looked at silver soldered copper boilers for years qualified to asses weld coupons?

When someone gets coded welder certificates that are from a registered body / insurance company, how will a club inspector have the knowledge unless from the pressure vessel industry.

I'm not against there being the provision for people to weld there own boilers but what happens to the club and hobby if the boiler examiner hasn't got the welding experience?

Steve Larner

Steve Larner

[alanstepney]

It is quite simple.
Do what the owners of locomotives, traction engines, steam boats, etc do, and that is to use a professional boiler inspector who is on the list of whichever insurance company you intend to use.

The arrangement for club testing is very ususual and is a concession, that allows us considerable leniency from the various rules that cover pressure vessels.
It was only due to considerable work on the part of a number of people that "we" have this concession, and are able to continue to "self regulate" to a considerable degree.
Yes, there are limitations, one being steel boilers.

However, as I said, there is a simple alternative.

[wayne]

the indtrial requiments for welded vesells are

Under PSSR, a competent person inspecting a welded pressure vessel for steam must hold either a IEnge (minor systems) or (Ceng all other systems) they must als be ECuk registerd in a mechanical disiplin and not electical engineering , they should be also versed in suitable nondestructive testing methods for ascertaining a vessel integrity (and this is not just hydraulic test).

On the btec competent examiners course for a compressed air examiner, one day is given out of the whole week for NDT, in addition the person must have 10 years relevant engineering experience, but any subiqant tests must be ratified by a Ieng or higher

[S.D.L.]

Jul 10, 2008 7:28:04 GMT alanstepney said:

It is quite simple.
Do what the owners of locomotives, traction engines, steam boats, etc do, and that is to use a professional boiler inspector who is on the list of whichever insurance company you intend to use.

I do intend to have my boiler made profesionally,

My concern is that some in the club are talking about making there own boilers and I cant see how it is decided if the club boiler inspectors are competent to asses the weld test pieces etc., as there has never been a steel boiler in the club let alone someone making there own, they have all been copper locomotive boilers.

What would happen to the hobby if one went wrong???

I could foresee our exemptions being questioned.

Steve Larner

[locoray0]

Hi it states in the blue book that you can weld a steel boiler if you are a competent welder l have welded my own it is for a 6in savage which has a 12in dia tube if you get problums with loco clubs l would look for a road loco club as l did they understand steel boilers

[KennLindeman]

Hi All Is there a particular type of steel specified to be used for steel boilers. I would imagine that it would have to be a specialized type steel

[fang]

I looked into this as I am a professional welder but not coded.

My understanding was that if you want to weld the boiler yourself, you have to have weld samples professionally inspected/tested, i.e. not someone in the club. My thoughts on this were that if you are confident your weld samples are up to scratch and you have to send them away to be tested, why not just become coded?? Your going to have to pay to have your samples tested so why not do it properly?

But I think by the time you've been through all that, and the cost involved, just prep it all yourself and get someone else to weld it. At least that way you get a certificate with it to say it's been welded to the correct standard, and if it fails any tests you can take it back and get them to sort it

[ejparrott]

Coded welding certificates need to be re-taken every 12 months do they not? That means you'd (probably) be ok to build one boiler, but when the time comes to build your second and third engines, you'd be back to square one. The deciding factor then would probably be cost of welding cert versus cost of testing samples.

[fang]

Last time I look into codings they were valid for 2 years. In order to be coded you need samples tested, the same as you do if building a boiler. But do you have to provide samples each time you want to weld a boiler??

I did start looking into this a while ago, as it is possible to get a welding qualification that is to the same standard as being coded, but your not coded, your just certified that you can produce a weld to a certain standard. This lasts forever, and I wonder if this would be acceptable for welding your own boiler?

[ejparrott]

2 years, thought it was only one. Still the argument would be one of cost of samples against cost of cert though. Welding course generally aren't cheap. My C&G Level 1 was over £600. It would be interesting to know if a course that went to coding standard and lasted forever was acceptable, but there would still be the question and cost of the samples.

Do you need to samples every time you build a boiler? Well the code doesn't really say, like everything else, it's wonderfully vague! I would say yes you do, on the basis that there is the potential for it being years between welding boilers and it's easy to go off the boil.

[fang]

I 'interpreted' it that if you provide samples they need to be sent away for testing, and if you need to be coded to officially weld pressure vessels, then your samples should be tested to the same standard, therefore you would end up going through all the same requirements and tests, and probably spend the same money, as you would if you just went for a coding. You then have 2 years to build all the boilers you need for every model you intend to make!!

Yeah that was the way I read it, again pretty much like a coding, your certification would only last for a certain time, and then you would have to provide more samples.

When you consider what is involved in a boiler, the actual welding is a small part of the job, and I still think for the odd boiler it would be better to prepare/machine all the plates yourself, tack it all together yourself so you do all the set-up work, then take it someone who is coded and all they have to do is stick it together, which I think would make the cost pretty reasonable

[ejparrott]

Absolutely, it looks like now I'm going for a copper boiler for my MW, but I originally looked at a steel boiler and I was going to machine all the plates myself. Had an offer of a coded welder to put it together too. Spoke to RSA about it and they said ideally they'd want a copy of his coding cert before he did it, but apart from that they were quite happy!

[tenor]

I did all my own plate prep and got a coded welder to do the welding on a 4" burrell, some 20 years ago. With advances in European bureaucracy, I would not even think about that route these days. Particularly if you want to sell the thing later.
I agree that in theory it should be feasible under the regs. - in practice, I would just file it in the "too difficult" basket.
Sad, but true,

Martin

[pault]

One thing to remember is that you are coded for a process (arc tig MIG), in a material, of a thickness range, for a welding possission. So depending on what codeing you have to may not be able to weld a boiler anyway. It is not quite as simple as you just need a codeing, you need the right one or right ones