Boiler?

[jamespetts]

As regular readers of this sub-forum might be aware, I am presently looking for a new boiler for my Stuart Score stationary engine, large enough to enable it to run a dynamo producing 12v at ~ 3a consistently: my current Stuart 504 (a 4" diameter Babcock-style boiler) is a long way from being enough.

I have not found anything suitable for a long time, and now some interesting boilers have all come up on eBay at the same time (from the same seller, who appears to have a good feedback profile, and a long history of selling steam related items).

The items are here, here. here and here (in descending order of size).

All appear to be of riveted construction, and the first (largest) boiler appears to be made of steel: the rest are made from copper. The steel boiler has been identified (I do not know how accurately) by the seller as a 1930s Stuart Turner boiler; the others are not given any specific identification.

I have sent a question to the seller asking about the working pressure of the boilers. Are old boilers like this likely to be able to cope with a good working pressure (say, 60-75Psi)? Performing an hydraulic test is all very well (and, of course, in any event necessary), but I can only do that after I have bought the thing. Is the fact of riveted (as opposed to silver soldered) construction a problem? I was thinking of avoiding the 70+ year old steel boiler, but are the copper ones (of unknown age) likely to have lasted?

I realise that nobody here will be able to be sure whether those individual boilers are worthwhile or not, but some general guidance about old, riveted copper boilers of that nature would be much appreciated.

[brozier]

Hi James,

Personally I wouldn't touch any of these with the proverbial barge pole. They are all ancient and in poor condition and without a pressure test you are taking a big gamble.

For the amount of money he is asking you can kit yourself up with a decent sievert burner and the materials to make a new boiler yourself. Boilers of this design will be a lot easier to make than a loco style boiler.

Riveting and caulking is a method that is not popular these days, having been superseded by superior methods like silver soldering (and welding for steel).

Cheers
Bryan

[circlip]

Hades Dentures James, even with broadband separating us, there have been times when I've ducked whilst watching your Vids with the existing boiler. ;D
There's an old adage, catch me once, shame on you, catch me twice, shame on me. Might I suggest that you give a ring and talk to that nice Lady at Western Steam, no connection, but her products are the Biz. It might seem expensive, but you do get a nice piece of paper that tells you she's made it properly.

Just thinking of you and your loved ones.

Regards Ian.

[jgb7573]

I wouldn't disagree with anything said above about buying rivetted and caulked boilers secondhand and predicting whether they will be any good. Whilst there may be nothing intrinsically wrong with a rivetted and caulked boiler apart from being old-fashioned, taking a chance on one seen remotely is pushing it a bit.
On top of which, boiler bashing is fun.

[alanstepney]

I'll go along with the "dont touch it with...etc".

Whilst I am not against rivetted boilers, the only time I would consider parting with cash for one, is after I had given it a thorough inspection and hydraulic test.

Without that, you could so easily be throwing money away.

[jamespetts]

Thank you for all your replies :-)

A number of people have mentioned making a boiler - how complicated a process is that, does anyone know?

[alanstepney]

I am sure that many people here have plenty of experience making boilers.
To name just one, GWRDriver makes boilers commercially, as did I at one time.

Look through past threads and you will find plenty of references to people who have made boilers, although I am sure that some will respond to this thread.

It isnt complicated.
Time consuming, and one needs to follow the procedures, but it isnt difficult.

(Now wait for someone to contradict me! lol)

[brozier]

Hi James,

I'm not an expert but have nearly finished making my first boiler.

It's a Belpaire boiler so one of the more difficult shapes to produce but with a methodical approach most things are possible.

The new(?) skills you need are copper-smithing and silver soldering. Plus you obviously will need a design and some idea about the order you put things together.

My website is not up to date but you can get a flavour here :
homepage.ntlworld.com/bryan.rozier/Spencer/boiler_making/Boiler_Making.html

I would recommend you try to get a couple of books on the subject these are the ones I've used :

Model Locomotive Boilermaking by Alec Farmer - Step by step photographs building a loco style boiler using oxy-acetylene.

Soldering and Brazing by Tubal Cain - everything you could every want to know about the techniques of silver-soldering.

Model Boilers and Boiler Making by K.N. Harris - techniques and design information has example designs including for stationary engines.

Model Locomotive Boilers by Martin Evans - covers similar ground to Harris.

These turn up on ebay now and again, the Alex Farmer book can take some finding but it's all pictures which is very useful.

I would seriously consider making your own boiler. The inner and outer for a vertical is tube you buy so you will only need to make circular flanged plates which are easier to make.

If you get stuck there are plenty of experts here to offer advice...

Hope this helps
Bryan

[spurley]

Hi Brian

That's a very interesting and encouraging site you've put together there. I wish I'd done something similar especially as I find myself 'relearning' skills each time round!

Cheers

Brian

[brozier]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the positive comments.

You've hit the nail on the head - I'm trying to document all the setups/tools/techniques I've used so I can remember them for next time :-)

Cheers
Bryan

[circlip]

Without trying to critisise Bryan's list, the two for you to Definitely get are the Harris and the Tubal Cain books, Harris covers all types of boiler, while the others are more Loco specific.

Thought I was the ONLY one on the Harris commission list Bryan ;D

Regards Ian.