stuck MT2 adapter

[davediy]

Dose anybody have any advice on how to get a stuck MT2 Adapter out of a MT3 Chester 626 Mill.
I was using an open ended adapter in the mill so I could use my Mt2 end mill with a draw bar but when it came time to remove them only the end mill came out .
I tried using a piece of stock bar down inside the shaft to locate the edge of the adapter and tap it out, but it seems theres not much of an edge on the adapter for it to catch on to and when trying to tap it out it fails to hold
It would appear that the shaft is similar in diameter to the end of the adapter.
I also tried the largest bar I could get down the shaft to tap it out but it just forced its way into the end of the adapter and got stuck. fortunately was able to drift it back up to free the stock bar. this bit got me worried
I don't fancy dismantling the top half of the machine so any advice would be greatly appreciated

[houstonceng]

How about this ?

Find or make a bolt (or some studding) that will go through the hole in the MT3/2 sleeve with a head or washer that will just clear the bore of your mill with enough overlap on the smaller end of the sleeve to be able the catch on it. Bolt to be long enough to protrude from lower end of the sleeve plus some more to allow use of a nut and the next item plus some more still to allow the bolt to be held (I'd favour enough for two more nuts locked together).

Turn up a cup shaped "washer" that will allow the sleeve's big end to be drawn into it (only needs less than 1/8" (3mm) deep) and with enough "land" to contact the mill spindle end.

Drop bolt through the sleeve from the top. Put cup "washer" on bolt then nut then locking nuts. Tighten the nut (holding bolt with the locking nuts) and it should draw the sleeve out. Sort of reverse draw-bar.

Finally, buy youreself a new MT3/2 sleeve with a jacking ring.

BTW. Hitting a "stuck" tapered part, to release it, often doesn't work because the sudden shock can "swell" the part and cause it to jam on each hammer-blow. Steady pressure can often release a taper that hammering won't shift. Same applies to pressing parts (like bushes) into holes.

[lancelot]

Hello Dave...''Loctite'' have a product which is ''Loctite 8040-freeze and release...it works by shock freezing the part to (-43 degrees C)...to release seized and corroded parts...comes in an aerosol can with applicator...apparently just spray on seized part...make sure and wear Goggles for eyes.
All the best for now,
John.

[jasonb]

Is the quill not slotted so you can insert a tapered drift from the side to eject tooling.

Jason

[davediy]

hi thanks for the response everybody I'm going to give the bolt technique a try for the first attempt tomorrow fingers crossed and SHMBO permitting ;D as for the lock tight method I do have a tin of freezing spray I use for the odd plumbing job though I doubt it gets to -43deg but as nothing will be open tomorrow anyhow Ill give it a try.
unfortunately the inside of my spindle doesn't have a slotted area its just a plain MT3 with a hollow spindle above it.
thanks for your help on this problem every one as it had me stumped
fingers crossed
Dave

[lancelot]

Hi Dave, try both methods at the same time...you never know,,,Good luck.
John.

[DaveW]

You could also try heating the quill a little at the same time as cooling the adapter.
Also, quite often just repeated rapid hot and cold cycles will unfreeze a stuck part and make it easier to draw out.



Dave.

[davediy]

success ;D I managed to have a go on the mill after Christmas dinner while the rest of the family was nodding off.
my first attempt didn't go so well though as I sheared the bolt I was first using and managed to scuff my knuckles at the same time fortunately I found one of my motorcycle engine retaining bolts was just the right size and with a suitable flange on it.
But I had to dispense with the cone washer I made as it flattened in use, Instead I used an old socket over the adapter with the bolt protruding through the square hole and a suitable washer.
Because of the first failure I heated the whole area first with my electric paint stripper then sprayed most of the tin of freezing agent inside the adapter with small block of wood jamming the top pulley to stop the spindle from spinning. Tightened up as much as I dared then put a rod of hard wood down inside the shaft and a sharp tap with a lump of 3x2 out it shot.
I've learned my lesson not to use cheap adapters and spend a bit more on decent equipment because of this.
thanks for your help everyone god know what I would have had to do If I had failed.
now all I need to do is explain to my misses how i managed to get grease on the cuffs of my new jersey on christmas day

[havoc]

This has nothing to do with the price of the adapter. Morse cones are used not only to provide centering but also to transmit the power. So they have to block themselves, they are designed to do this. If you then apply too much force when mounting them you're in trouble. This in contrast to ISO cones that are only used for centering, they always drop loose.

[davediy]

My lack of engineering knowledge was the problem here
The trouble with the adapter I used was there was no facility for it to be released when it was in place. The draw bar was only nipped and the end mill came out without any trouble. Had the draw-bar tube above it had been a slightly smaller diameter there would be no way I could have released It in the fashion I did and I think it would have been permanently stuck. I think houstoneng was correct in that I should get a adapter with a release ring. It did rattle me when I couldn't get it out.
Because of this I looked at the range of adapters I originally choose from.
The adapter I purchased only cost me £4 at the time and had I gone for the one at £20 which had a ring on the outer rim I doubt I would have had this trouble, but at the time I didn't know what the outer ring on the adapter rim was for.
I good learning curve for me
Thanks again every one
dave

[ozcutter]

Dave,
Some words on Chinese MT3/MT2 adapters with the release ring/nut - I tried several in Australia without success because of run-out (in a Sheraton lathe spindle).

Run-out is easy to measure - just put a good cylindrical rod horizontally in the vise, add the adapter and a dial gauge/indicator to measure wall thickness.
Rotate the adapter by hand against an end-stop and observe the indicator.

None of the adapters I measured was better than about 0.0015" TIR.
I purchased a second-hand obviously well-used Australian made Hercus brand adapter which measures less than about 0.0002" TIR (on a clock gauge).

On my lathe, knock-out is not a problem using a draw-bar down the spindle bore.
I can understand the absolute need to get the adapter out with the ring/nut over weighing considerations of TIR errors.

Happy machining,
John.

[davediy]

I agree I do think that most of the older equipment made before the cheap imports flooded us were a better quality, and I spend a large amount of time rummaging in car boot sales and fate odds bins, much to my wifes annoyance looking for the odd bargain. ;D
Unfortunately its a shame most of the stuff I find is too rusted to use or take a chance on. Trouble is its hard to know how much to spend on some new equipment, if its expensive it doesn't necessarily mean its any better that a cheaper version from someone else, but on the same vein you get what you pay for. But on my small budget I don't always have much choice.
When I was growing up around here there was loads of places I could go to to talk to someone about engineering problems or get advice. Sadly all gone now and I've left it a bit late to getting back into model engineering as I've forgotten most of what I learned years ago so I have to learn it all again
Dave

[steam4ian]

G'day Dave

Keep relearning and then pass it on.

At the risk of going OT it concerns me that we are not passing on our skill (or lack of it) and more importantly passing on the love of things mechanical, steamy or just plain noisy to present day children. Some of us can still remember standing at the lineside when the 5:10 roared through hauled by steam loco, regulator wide open.

Regards
Ian