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Post by maninshed on Jan 15, 2009 17:42:43 GMT
Hi After some quick help, I'm thinking of buying a mini lathe the one I liked the best was the Warco version, better motor and more robust looking tailstock. Has anyone else bought one of these machines, from Warco or Chester or Euro Trade. Have looked at the web sites and understand that some fiddling is usually required to get the machines to an acceptable standard. I already have a bigger lathe but I want something small to carry out guess what 'small work' injectors etc. Anybody got any views from yea go for it mate or don't touch it with a barge pole. Quick answers would be helpful as Warco are putting the prices up Monday next week.
Martyn
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Post by ettingtonliam on Jan 15, 2009 18:29:15 GMT
Hi I bought a Chester Conquest 4 years ago, to do the small high speed stuff, because my 6" main lathe only had a top speed of around 700rpm. I bought it with a quick change toolholder rather my normal 4 way toolpost, because i had read how wonderful the QCs were. when I stick to the small stuff, say 1" or less BMS, then its fine, does everything I want it to, gives a good finish, turns parallel etc. (I did change the bearings using the Arc Eurotrade roller bearing conversion, it was striaghtforward, and helps when parting off) I stopped using the QC very quickly, because I was getting chatter, which went away when I changed to a 4 way toolpost. The QC has too much overhang for my liking. I don't remember having to do too much fettling - maybe I was one of the lucky ones. I did however (because my big lathe was out of commission) try truning some largish iron castings on it. Mistake. With the variable speed control, when the speed is low enough for cast iron 4" dia, there isn't enough torque to do the job, especially getting under the skin. Next mistake was turning a gas engine conrod from a 10" length of 70mm BMS. This involved lowish speeds for extended periods and resulted in the motor burning out Twice. I now understand that when these motors run slowly, the cooling fan isn't very effective and they overheat. So, conclusion is, its fine if I restrict it to what I bought it for which is the small stuff, and I'm quite happy with it doing this, provided I've got a bigger lathe as well. If it was my only lathe, I'd be changing it pretty fast. I could do a bigger range of work on my first ever lathe, a pre war ML4. Couldn't do it as accurately, but I could do cast iron flywheels and driving wheels which I can't on this. The ML4 was more versatile. Stick to injectors etc, it should be fine. I can't comment on the differences between Warco, Chester, Clarke etc, but I suspect they all come out of the same factory. I've found a big difference in prices for extra bits like faceplates, steadies etc, but have shopped around Warco, Clarke, Chester etc for the best price at the time, and bits have always fitted. I also don't know what changes have been made in the last 4 years since I bought mine. I don't have any of the fancy digital gizmos. I got it with a metric leadscrew, because the big lathe has an imperial leadscrew. The feed dials are dual reading. I only use them to regulate depth of cut, so I can't comment on how accurate the imperial/metric calibrations are over longer lengths. Hope this helps
Richard
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Post by baggo on Jan 15, 2009 18:52:44 GMT
Hi Martyn, Brother Mick bought the C3 from Arc Euro and he's pretty pleased with it. They didn't have the plain version (without the DROs) in stock so they let him have the DRO version for the same price As Richard says, so long as you don't try and do big stuff on them they are fine. The only thing I don't like about Mick's C3 is that the chucks are bolted on and it's a bit of a pain to change them. John
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Post by maninshed on Jan 15, 2009 21:18:51 GMT
Thanks for the prompt reply lads I appreciate you taking the time. I think I'll go for the Warco machine as the tailstock looks more robust, and the motor is more powerful, it also comes with a test cert but not sure if that will be worth the paper it's written on. My other lathe is a 5" so any big work would go through that. Thanks again lads.
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steam4ian
Elder Statesman
One good turn deserves another
Posts: 2,069
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Post by steam4ian on Jan 16, 2009 10:55:13 GMT
G'day Martyn
I correspond from time to time with a member of another group (Andy Franks if he's here) who has the WARCO. From what I can see it is better than mine which is the Real Bull variant which is better than the Sieg type.
IMHO the standard tailstock is one of the weaknesses of the lathe so the WARCO version will be better. It is difficult to set up for no taper and not rigid leading to chatter.
The Real Bull variant has a square saddle not H shaped and comes with oilers for the ways and other lube spots. The Real Bull speed controller is of USA manufacture and of light industrial quality (better) and a larger motor (400W for 12", 550W for 14"). There are a number of other minor changes.
I can work up to 50mm in 1020 mild steel (not free cutting) comfortably. Richards comments about the motor are significant. Whilst it may develop enough torque, 1mm cut at 25mm diameter, at the slow speed it does not have enough cooling.
One mod I made to my lathe was to put in an ammeter.
Regarding QCTPs I bought a number of spare 4 way tool holders so I can leave tools set up.
Hope this helps
Ian
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Post by maninshed on Jan 16, 2009 13:09:02 GMT
Ian. thanks for your input it's all useful stuff.
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DaveW
Active Member
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Post by DaveW on Jan 16, 2009 19:52:21 GMT
I also have a Real Bull 7x14 (550W motor) which seems to perform remarkably well for the small amount of loot it cost.
I had a few problems with tailstock alignment until I drilled out the ajustment locking screw (which is underneath the TS, as supplied) and fitted a through screw which can be operated from above. Did this at the same time I made a camlock for the TS.
The only other real problem I experienced initially was a degree of 'patterning' on fine finish cuts (Al.) but I'm getting on top of that as I work my way through cleaning up the gibs and fit of the saddle and slides
If it's of interest, I bought mine from a firm called Amadeal Discount Machine Tools Ltd - they offered the best price on eBay at the time and I have been impressed by the quality of their after-sales customer care. I have no connection with the company - just a satisfied customer.
Dave.
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Post by Phil Sutton on Jan 16, 2009 21:03:55 GMT
Hi.I have a Warco mini lathe,havn't used it much,but it works well,but don't expect to take 1/4"cuts with it though!
Phil
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Post by AndrewP on Jan 17, 2009 0:00:33 GMT
Hi Martyn,
I have the smaller Sieg lathe, Chester call it the Cobra, and struggle for accuracy with it, despite a shed load of fettling. Bought a second hand Cowells recently - DEEP JOY! A pleasure to use, accurate as I'll ever need and just a beautifully made little tool. A bit spendy for additions though. Just a thought.
Andy
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Post by maninshed on Jan 17, 2009 0:12:34 GMT
Well guys the cheapest machine i've found is the Conquest supplied by Chester, £303 for the basic machine, if I bought the metric screw cutting set and a 4 jaw it's about £370.00 the lot. I'm still abit concerned about the tailstock on this type of machine (looks to be same as the 'Real Bull' machine). Dave W once you had sorted your tailstock was it okay? Richard you look to have the most experience with these machines (think I've been on your webb site) you mention turning titanium, I know this stuffs tough as we make it where I work. What's your view on the tailsock? Phil thanks for you input on the Warco, is yours the latest one with the more robust tailstock, if so he says cheekly do you want to sell it.
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DaveW
Active Member
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Post by DaveW on Jan 17, 2009 0:54:13 GMT
maninshed, I've not had any problems with the TS thus far. Seems to give repeatable accuracy at different locations on the ways and seems secure but I have yet to test it with some really heavy work. I've been working mainly with aluminium - < 2" dia. with a lot of TS drilling (to 7mm dia. drills) - and smallish dia. stainless steel (1/4" & 1/2" shafts) EDIT. just checked and I paid £332 (July 08) including delivery for the 7x14 fitted with a 4", 3 jaw chuck. No other accessories though. If anyone has a 4" independant to fit that they don't have a use for ...................... Dave.
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Post by ettingtonliam on Jan 17, 2009 9:20:11 GMT
Maninshed Sorry, I don't have a website, and I've never worked in titanium, so I can't comment. Must be someone else!. The tailstock is OK, but as others have mentioned is a bit of a pig to adjust. DaveW has the right idea, fit a camlock and alter the position of the locking screw. as supplied, you have to take the tailstock off the machine to adjust it, and there is no fine adjustment for offset. Depends if you think you'll be doing much long taper work. Speaking of tapers, to set the topslide to taper means winding the slide nearly off the base in order to expose the 2 allan cap screws which lock the base in place, and then winding it back into position. Its a fine pitch screw, so thats a lot of turns! The degree scale is some form of alloy casting with raised markings, so not wonderfully precise, and on mine, when the topslide is set parallel, the scale reads around 1 1/2degrees. Treat the scale as a rough indication only. It doesn't seem to be adjustable. Normally, using a spanner to lock the tailstock annoys the hell out of me, and I did convert the big lathe because of this, but for some reason I've never got round to it on the Conquest. Hope this isn't putting you off, they are OK for what you seem to need it to do, run quietly and are reasonably portable. I'm allowed to have mine in the utility room (its got heating) so I can work without having to go out to the shed (which hasn't got heating)
Regards Richard
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DaveW
Active Member
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Post by DaveW on Jan 17, 2009 11:21:56 GMT
Speaking of tapers, to set the topslide to taper means winding the slide nearly off the base in order to expose the 2 allan cap screws which lock the base in place, and then winding it back into position. Its a fine pitch screw, so thats a lot of turns! The degree scale is some form of alloy casting with raised markings, so not wonderfully precise, and on mine, when the topslide is set parallel, the scale reads around 1 1/2degrees. Treat the scale as a rough indication only. It doesn't seem to be adjustable. The topslide on mine was a bit notchy with the gib adjusted correctly so I did the common mod. of fitting a ball race. This is very simple to do and only requires turning a housing to hold the bearing. This then replaces the solid bush fitted at the factory and gives a big imorovement in smoothness. Regarding the angle scale. This is, in fact, a plastic moulding and like Richard's, the one fitted to mine was some way out. I elongated the the holes and and replaced the cap head screws with pan heads so that it could be zeroed. The graduations are a bit coarse though and I have yet to test it for linearity as I have not had the need to turn any accurate tapers. Whichever model you buy it would be a good idea to increase the 'footprint' by removing the rubber feet and re-mounting them on something like 3/8"x 2"x 10" flat MS bar drilled to fit the bed. The feet on my machine are now at 8 1/2" centres and this greatly improves the stability and cuts down vibration considerably. Dave.
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Post by maninshed on Jan 17, 2009 13:26:56 GMT
Hi Everyone. It's brilliant all this honest advice you lads are giving, it's a great help. I'm off at a tanget a little you know what its like when your researching into buying something new. I have also looked at the Warco WM180 which is the next lathe up I note warco have a couple of second hand ones in stock £350 they have the works 4 jaw chuck steadys, I know iit's a heavier machine but for that price if i'd got to do a bit of fettling who cares. A new one is £500 ,know anything about this machine. Dave I looked at the Amadeal web site thet do a WM180 as well as the Real Bull mini lathe, the Warco prices were slightly better on the WM180 but the Mini lathe price is only beaten by Chester at the moment. The only negative I've picked up on the WM180 is it's noisy (headstock gears) apparenntly. I realy want something that can be fettled to a fair degree of accuracy for small work, eg gauge 1 and small parts that get lost on my larger 5" lathe. Again thanks for the support, and advice it's brilliant. I am okay with machine tool fitting scraping slides and all that stuff just need a reasonablee machine as a base.
Martyn (Maninshed) when he can get there.
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Post by maninshed on Jan 31, 2009 23:29:39 GMT
Hi Just to finish this string off, took delivery of Warco WM180 (ex demostrator) thought I got a bargin, as apart from a couple of scratches in the paint, the only thing that has been used is the 3 jaw, none of the other equipments been used. Ran it up sounds okay, just need to clean some odd bits of brass swarf off it. Obviously once I get it on the bench I'II check it out alignment wise. Spoke to some of the lads on the 'Yahoo mini lathe group' a number of them have got WM180's, again they gave no negative feedback.
Martyn.
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Post by modeng2000 on Feb 1, 2009 7:43:08 GMT
The only real problem I had with my WM180 was with the tail stock. The tail stock centre was too high (fortunately) so I scraped the mating off-set faces until the centre height matched the main spindle being careful to keep things parallel. Now all is well. I am not sure how much the error was but it was enough to need correcting. Another adjustment was to the upper speed setting. This is by means of a preset variable resistor on the circuit board. The top speed was slow by about 500rpm.
John
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2009 11:33:48 GMT
The only real problem I had with my Warco Minilathe was the main fuse. If I attempted any ambitious cuts the damn thing would blow straight away! The fuse didn't like reversing much either. Might be a good idea to keep some spares! I sold it on ebay when I bought the EMCO Maximat: the buyer collected it in his Rolls-Royce! JB
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