Which lathe for a newbie?

[stubee]

Hi all,

I'm in the position to get my very first lathe I think!

However, being a newbie I'm not sure what to get so need some advice on what I should look for in a decent model. I would be grateful if some models could be suggested given your own experiences with purchases.

I'm restoring a 5" Gauge engine and don't have a huge amount of room in the workshop so a bench mounted (single-phase) would be best. My initial requirements would be to turn a few fittings etc to get used to turning metal, but I want something that I'm not going to 'grow out of' if that makes sense. That is not limited too much by the capacity of the machine - only my abilities!

I don't have a huge budget and therefore would probably be looking at a used lathe and I would be interested in any recommended models that are up for grabs ;D

Regards,
Stuart

[russell]

How about this? Ebay item 180322159218
Similar design to the Myford but a bit bigger with taper roller bearing headstock and a fraction of the price.

Russell.

[Staffordshirechina]

Hi Stuart,
Nearly 30 years ago I bought a secondhand Myford ML7. It was a nice machine and came with quite a few accessories. I made more bits for it and eventually got rich enough to upgrade to a Super 7. All the bits I made still fitted, plus I retained some of the nicer accessories as well.
I still got a good sale price for the ML7 when it sold too.
If you are a member of a club, ask about and see what others have. I suspect you will find several Myfords and Myford bits will come up on sale nights etc.
They are not the cheapest but are nice to use and accurate, plus spares are available off the shelf.
You could expect to pay £300 - £500 for a reasonable 3.5" Myford + some accessories.

Les

[havoc]

You could expect to pay £300 - £500 for a reasonable 3.5" Myford + some accessories.

Expect to pay 2000 euro for a battered one if you live outside the UK. Myford has a bit of a cult name inside the ME world. But people who have several lathes often prefer the other (asian) ones.

I would go for a lathe that can swing 200-250mm diameter and has about 400mm between centers. It might be a bit large for small fittings but it will let you turn wheels for the 5" if needed.

[Staffordshirechina]

Havoc, I would agree with you up to a point but Stubee says he hasn't much room and it must be a bench type machine.
I now have the Myford for smaller stuff and a Pinacho 250 (Spanish) for big stuff.
Having spent many years patiently collecting machines and tools, I have managed to greatly advance my workshop in recent years by using Ebay and wish it had been around when I first wanted a lathe!
The other place to look for a lathe is www.homeworkshop.org.uk/

Les

[Shawki Shlemon]

I fully agree with Havoc , I bought a Taiwanese 10" swing ,24" between centres and 30 years later it still serve me very well .A lathe should last the modeling life of a person and is cheaper in the long run to aquire the size that will serve you a long time .

[davediy]

Hi Stubee
Lathes
Its always one of those subjects that will have some people loving one type while others simply slag them off .
I myself have a small myford ML7 I purchased on ebay for 300 quid I'm using this to relearn all that I forgot with my First 5" Steam engine then I will buy a new bigger funds permitting.
Do some research before parting with your hard earned cash try this site it could help www.lathes.co.uk/
Havoc is correct about swing look at the engine you want to build and see what you need to do the job. Screw cutting, Milling ect
Myford is a good start from my perspective but the most important thing is the condition of any lathe you settle for. A worn old lathe is no better than some cheaper new Chinese lathes available.
Go for what serves you best and it will be cheaper in the long run ;D
Dave

[havoc]

Havoc, I would agree with you up to a point but Stubee says he hasn't much room and it must be a bench type machine.

I have a machine of that size. Mine sits on a bench I made with a 1200x600 top made of 2 layers 18mm ply. I still have about 100mm each side left.

Agreed, it is a bit large for small fittings. But that is more a problem of the jaws, it would be better using collets. They are on my shopping list...

On the other hand he wants to service his 5" with it and if he ever needs to touch up the threads of his wheels he will have to be able to swing them. Same for turning a new axle for the engine or a trolley. Depending on how large the wheels are on his current engine the swing could be a bit smaller but turning at the limits of a lathe is always more difficult.

I prefer fiddling a bit more with small items than struggle with large ones.

[alanstepney]

I too would advocate a Myford.
They are well made, and there are plenty of accesories available, or designs for making them yourself.

The many Chinese etc makes that are available now, whilst generally of better quality than they used to be, do have their limitations, and some examples are less accurate than "we" need.
Whilst the experienced will modify or improve them as required, the novice may not know if "faults" are due to the machine or their inexperience.

With a Myford (and assuming you get one in good condition) you can be assured that it will do the job, within its limitations, and lots of people are around to give advice on them.

[stubee]

Hi again all,

Many many thanks for your replies which are all extremely helpful. Looks like there is a bit of a following for the Myford's !

I was looking at an Emco Compact 5 earlier on today (ebay Item number: 130281871402). But perhaps this is a little too small? I think the biggest thing I'll ever turn will be a wheel and mine are presently 115mm in diameter. What are peoples opinions of these 'smaller' lathes against a Myford?

Also, I'm seeing a lot about 3 jaw & 4 jaw chucks. Apart from the obvious, what is the difference and why would you need both?

Stuart

[havoc]

Apart from the obvious, what is the difference and why would you need both?

Usually, 3-jaws are auto centering. You turn the key and the 3 jaws close at the same time towards the center. The 4-jaw (again usually) has 4 independent jaws. You can move each one on its own.

This makes the 3-jaw easy to use: grip a piece of bar and start turning. But you live with any excentricity the jaw has. With the 4-jaw you have to center your piece yourself, mostly using a dial clock. So it takes more time, but you can be as precise as you want. But this also makes it easy to put a piece out of center, something that is far more difficult with a 3-jaw.

A 3-jaw can take hex bar and a 4-jaw can take square bar.

[jasonb]

A 4 jaw can also be used to hold irregular shaped items as well as round and square such as medium size castings, rods that need cross drilling, eccentrics, etc.

If the compact 5 is a little small I still have my Emcomat 8.6 for sale

modeleng.proboards20.com/index.cgi?board=personal&action=display&thread=2687

Jason

[steam4ian]

G'day Stuart

If your budget is tight you could consider a 7 x 12 minilathe particularly if space is also tight.
I am quite happy with mine even though I also have a genuine 9" lathe. This latter is a Hercus AR which will be a labour of love until I get it to my satisfaction; due to space restrictions at home it lives with my son.

My experience with the minilathe is that it is fine for work up to about 50mm (2") diameter in steel, after that you have to do some planning. Looking at the features I think it was initially designed as a teaching lathe, the design is thought to have originated from Eastern Europe.

The minilathe now has its own Workshop Series book and there have been a series of good articles in MEW.

Regarding milling. Buying a 7 x 12 will leave room in the pocket and shop for buying a minimill (X2 type). You can save buying a drill press if you get the mill. For me I would find a milling attachment on a lathe a real pain, it's last century's compromise.

I haven't seen many/any 2nd hand minilathes on Ebay; that probably means owners are hanging on to them even when up grading to a larger lathe. They don't take up much space and would remain handy for small jobs.

Regards
Ian

[tomol409]

Stu, Whilst the Myfords are good little lathes and reasonably priced for the early ones, they had a few shortcomings like having to drift the tailstock centres and chucks out by hand . Changing to backgear is a bit of a pain. Some of these are items addressed on the later Super 7, but of course at a higher price. I used a new one for four years and made much of a TICH locomotive on it, which it handled well. However there are a good few cheap Boxfords about , which in my experience are a much more robust and versatile machine with many attachments and spares cheaply available. They have a vee bedways, roller bearing headstock, self ejecting tailstock, and often come with a gearbox. They were widely used as a training lathe in mining training centres and apprentice training schools in industry. However, earlier models have a plain topped cross-slide. The later t-slotted model is better, although you can get this slide fairly cheaply. I have skimmed car brake discs and drums on mine. Anyway, no one has mentioned this model so I thought I would just mention it. Tomol.

[ajsbsa]

I would like to put in a vote for the 7 x 12 minilathe as well it was my first home lathe and its great for the beginner. Loads of stuff on the internet for it, variable speed control you can change while its cutting also great for a beginner. Brand new with warranty it is still cheaper than a 50 year old Myford and joy of joys it has 19mm hole through the spindle compared to I think 7mm on the ML7.
It has safety features built in which work well also good for the beginner although these can be disabled if you want. I never had any real problems with mine and I loaned it to a friend when I bought my South Bend 9 inch Model B because I needed a bigger throw and its still going strong.
Also accessories are very cheap indeed.
Steve

[Staffordshirechina]

Stuart, reading your question about chucks - I would suggest you buy the book 'The Amateurs Lathe' by Lawrence Sparey. It will fill in most of the gaps in your knowledge to get you started painlessly.
It also contains a chapter on buying and setting up a lathe, which although now a little dated in terms of manufacturers, is still sound advice and methods.

Les

[engineernut]

I started off with a brand New Hobbymat lathe. Very good for it's size but limited, and before long I needed to be able to machine larger work. Which I would think the majority of people do after entering this hobby?
I updated to a Myford Super7 with gearbox and power cross feed. Well pleased with this machine. There are also lots of accessories and Myfords still sell spares for their lathes that are probably about 60yrs old. So if you do see an old Myford for sale there is a good chance spares are available. Myfords say on their web page the years they go back to for spares.
In reality I would have preferred a slightly larger lathe but space was also a premium, apart from the fact the Myford was a very good price.

[stubee]

OK guys - I think i've settled down to a mini lathe as suggested, one of these will fit better with both my budget and space issues

So now I think I'm down to either a 'Clarke CL300M', 'SIEG C2A', 'Chester Conquest' or a 'Warco' - unless I've missed any out?

If you had the choice between these machines, which would you go for & is a DRO worth the extra money??

Thanks for all the replies so far which have proven to be invaluable.
Stu

[steam4ian]

G'day Stu

If shopping for a mini-lathe go for Real Bull or Weiss variants as in my opinion they have some minor improvements over the Sieg lathes.

The differences are
Larger motor.
USA supplied control board (industrial quality).
Heat treated ways, well there is a diagram on the end of the bed.
Solid square shaped saddle
Way wipers.
Double locknut adjustment of the compound (top slide) feed screw
Oilers for the ways and lead screw bearing
End nut on lead screw to adjust play (handy for later connection of a hand wheel
Tail stock and saddle wheels may be metal if you are lucky.

IMHO each manufacturer has made design short cuts and Sieg are at the end of the line. That said, there seem to be less complaints from new owners over the last year or so. You can start turning with the lathes as they come out of the box.

In my experience the tail stock is a weak link and for that reason I would suggest you look closely at the WARCO Mini-lathe which has a very solid improved pattern of tail-stock complete with cam locking.
The Chester conquest appears from photos to be the Real Bull variant as does the WARCO.

You will need both 3 and 4 jaw chucks, a drill chuck for the tail-stock and centre and 2MT. A 3MT centre for the headstock spindle is handy for centering the tail-stock but there are other ways.

Forget the carbide tipped tools that are offered and get some HSS blanks; I assume you have a bench or pedestal grinder, if not get one.

IMHO a quick change tool post is not necessary, I manage well with 5 regular 4 way tool holders each with tools set up ready to go.

I have bought a lot from Little Machine Shop in the USA and find most deliveries arrive in about a week; postage is not cheap. They have just about any spare for Sieg lathes you will need. Most Sieg parts fit Real Bull lathes; just occasionally a little ingenuity is required. In the UK you may have better access to spares and accessories than I do in Oz.

Remember my adage: One good turn deserves another.

Regards,
Ian

[ajsbsa]

I had a Chester Conquest it had the USA Board fitted as standard and I had the quick change tool post which worked well for me. Mine came with some really terrible carbide tooling which I never got to cut right, the lathe works best with HSS tooling or Glanze insert tooling. I modded the tail stock to cam locking myself but I believe this is a standard option now.
DRO is a question of personal choice it could be usefull for the beginner but not something I would choose.
Steve