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Post by baggo on Mar 12, 2009 18:12:29 GMT
A few weeks ago, our club member with the Black Five (he of the valve gear problems) was steaming the loco at one of our public running days when he noticed water dripping from the ashpan area. This loco has been steamed quite a lot over the last year and has been a stalwart passenger hauler at our public running days. We had a good look and it was decided that the water was coming from one of the axle pump connections, although I wasn't convinced as the leak seemed worse when the boiler was up to pressure. I jokingly suggested that it could be a stay leaking (which was actually what I thought it to be). Anyway, he took loco off and we suggested he pumped the boiler up with water when he got chance with the ashpan and grate removed so that he could see what was what. I've not been to the club for 2 weeks due to car problems but went today and asked about the boiler. Apparently, the leak was from the foundation ring so the boiler had to come off. It was taken to a gentleman somewhat knowledgeable about boilers and given the once over. He decided to do a hydraulic test on the boiler and found the offending leak. He decided to carry on increasing the pressure towards that of the proper hydraulic test pressure and the one leak turned into a spurt and several others appeared around the foundation ring and a couple on the firebox tube plate  It transpires that the boiler throatplate had pulled away from the foundation ring i.e. the silver soldered joint had completely failed, the cause being that there was no penetration of the solder into the joint. Grinding the solder fillets off the other foundation ring joints showed the same. The only thing holding the foundation ring was a fillet of solder between that and the firebox wrapper and outer wrapper. This had eventually cracked and given way. To cut a long story short, the boiler was successfully repaired and passed the hydraulic test with no further problems. But for how long  John |
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abby
Statesman
Posts: 925
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Post by abby on Mar 12, 2009 20:41:18 GMT
Who made the boiler John ?
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Post by baggo on Mar 12, 2009 20:46:23 GMT
Hi Abby,
It was the boiler supplied with the kits. I'm not sure if it is a Modelworks kit or an earlier Winson. Apparently it is one of the last Black Fives sold.
John
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Post by mutley on Mar 12, 2009 21:17:36 GMT
Umm not the first incident Ive heard of. Similar case in our club but this time on the front tube. plate. This boiler was returned and repaired by MW.
Andy
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Post by drjohn on Mar 13, 2009 23:12:15 GMT
This does beg the question of the cadmium free silver solders mentioned in another thread DJ Perhaps it was imported from Oz  ;D |
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Post by mutley on Mar 14, 2009 11:38:36 GMT
No, cadmium free solder will still penetrate a joint you do have to be carfull you dont overheat it though.
Andy
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Post by baggo on Mar 14, 2009 12:15:38 GMT
Without saying too much, it is unlikely that the problem was with the solder  John |
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Post by mutley on Mar 14, 2009 14:53:09 GMT
I agree with you there John.
Andy
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Post by streaky on Jul 18, 2009 0:25:32 GMT
Hi all,,,
I am also doing the MW Black 5 as started from kit 1 by myself and has been done up to kit
5,,,yes a fair way to go,,,I shelved the project due to lack of time and doing other stuff,,,,I do have to say that only being just about to kit 6 in 2009 has almost been helpfull as I have been finding out all about the problems the model has had and a fair few by the sound of it...I hope you have all managed to sort your Black5 s out and I would be grateful of any advise any of you may have.......Cheers all.......Matt.
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Post by baggo on Jul 23, 2009 15:12:07 GMT
Saw Roger at the club today and the boiler has failed again He was running the loco the other day when suddenly clouds of steam started coming from the chimney. Opening the smokebox door revealed a smokebox full of water A hydraulic test at home showed several of the tubes leaking at the front tubeplate joints and water dripping from the firebox which turned out to be 2 of the superheater flue joints leaking. The leaks have been sealed with Comsol as Roger's 'boiler repair man' probably daren't try heating the boiler to silver solder temperature as this possibly would have caused more joints to fail ( or the boiler to fall to pieces!). I think we are all agreed that the boiler is probably a basket case and is going to have to be replaced eventually as the problem is likely to be ongoing. The trouble is that although the joints look perfectly sound from the outside they obviously aren't. The only way to check the penetration would be to get an endoscope and look inside the boilers at the tube ends etc. But whose got the facilities to do that? John |
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Post by ayesha2 on Oct 20, 2009 17:02:01 GMT
hi baggo
can you find out who manufactured the boiler.
if their still in business, i think they may be liable under the trading standards 6 years for such a vessel that does not rust
and has a long life because of the material used.
cant under stand why its not in the boiler design thingymebob
yours tony
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Post by baggo on Oct 20, 2009 17:26:14 GMT
Hi Tony,
it was the boiler that came as one of the kits. It may have been made 'in house' or farmed out elsewhere. I just hope it proves to be a 'one off' and none of the other builders face similar problems.
John
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Post by klendo on Oct 27, 2009 16:42:56 GMT
Well a colleague of mine also had a black 5 where it had been used on many occasions. One afternoon whilst running a ploom of steam came rushing from the foundation ring. On later inspection it would appear that a section of this was merely held together with flux... All has been put right now, but just to let you know, youre not the only one.
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Post by baggo on Oct 27, 2009 16:51:27 GMT
All has been put right now, but just to let you know, youre not the only one. Oh dear, that doesn't sound very promising for the others out there John |
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Post by mutley on Oct 27, 2009 23:14:10 GMT
So that makes three that we know of!  |
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Post by baggo on Oct 30, 2009 0:35:18 GMT
I was told today of a 9F boiler that's gone as well. I don't know the details but will try to find out. Brits next ?
John
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Post by drjohn on Oct 30, 2009 3:01:05 GMT
A couple of comments made by Dean (steamfittings) to me almost 2 years ago I'd be surprised if Helen Verrall (who makes exceedingly good boilers) at Western Steam would ratify that boast. And for those of you who want to buy a safe boiler and don't know where - www.westernsteam.co.ukMay have some bearing on these failures. DJ |
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Post by baggo on Dec 18, 2009 0:57:15 GMT
The B5 boilers gone again! This time it's one of the firebox backplate joints The owner has had an offer from an engineering firm to 'rebuild' it as he can't afford a new boiler to replace it. They reckon they can take it apart and put it back together properly. I suggested he could save them some of the work by just dropping it on the floor and it would fall to pieces anyway. John |
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Post by mutley on Dec 18, 2009 14:11:08 GMT
That is until thye get it apart and realise the amount of work required to make the paltes fit together properly in the first place......
Will see the B5 in our club on boxing day. It wil be intresting to see how this boiler is coping.
Andy
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Post by baggo on Feb 25, 2011 15:02:20 GMT
Just an update on this. I saw Roger on Thursday. He has bitten the bullet and had a new boiler built by Western Steam which is now ready to collect. Hopefully, he'll be back on the tracks in a couple of weeks  John |
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;D
