Advice re Old Lathe

[Deleted]

I ran a test on the bearings as suggested by a member on another forum.



Warwick www.lathes.co.uk/warwick/index.html

I tightened down the bearing clamp bolts until the shaft would not turn then backed off about 1 flat.

Result when I put pressure on the bit of wood the chuck moved up about 0.19 -0.20mm (millimetres) so I guess I'm looking at new bearings.

So how much trouble would it be to replace them, are they off the shelf items?

Is this lathe worth the trouble?



The bed seems pretty decent and although I don't know how to use them I have the wheels for screw cutting.

The top slide is damaged and I'm concerned that it's not properly supporting the tool post.



www.ora8i.rivington-riflemen.org/Images/Lathe/tool%20post%20n%20top%20slide.jpg
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Do you know were I could get DETAILED instructions about replacing/shimming the bearings?

I have very little real knowledge of lathe work although I have managed to make a few small bits

Thanks Again Ora.

[alanstepney]

I doubt the bearings are off the shelf, although it might be worth carefully measuring them to see if there is some standard ones that would fit.

Actually fitting them is easy. So easy that I can do it. !

Is the lathe worth it?
A difficult question as so much depends upon the individual.
I would say, yes, as it doesnt look anywhere near as bad as many I have seen.
When repaired it should give you a basic lathe that is quite stong and capable of doing a reasonable amount of work.

On the other hand, if you are short of time and have sufficient spare cash, then it might be better to buy a new lathe and spend yout time making whatever type of model appeals to you.

[Deleted]

What you cant see easily on the pictures it the weld in the front bearing housing, at some point it's snapped probably over tightened and been welded back together.

That turned out to be easy enough, I have the bearings out and measured up, can you suggest a supplier I might contact.

Regards aamcle

[alanstepney]

The best way of finding a supplier is to do a search for one. There are plenty of them.
(look for bronze bearings.)
I have one supplier local to me, but that wont help you much.

But, before that, check the shaft. Measure at various positions of the shaft. I.E., 12 0/clock to 6 o/clock, then 3-9 o/clock, and then roughly mid way between them. You should do that at each end of each bearing. Best to write the figures down.
Then you will know if the shaft is round or elliptical, or some other shape.
Also, if the bearing is tapered.
If it is badly out, then you will have to get the shaft skimmed and as it is probably hardened, that will mean grinding it.
As this might mean more expense, that is why you should check before buying the bearings.

The bearings are probably simple shells, and all the supplier will require is the inside (shaft) diameter, the thickness of the shell, and the length of each bearing.
It will be to Imperial measurements. Obvious perhaps, but worth mentioning.

When you get the shells, give them a very light coating of thin oil, then place them around the shaft and see how well they fit.
They should fit all the way round, quite tightly, and there should still be a small gap between the ends of the shells. Around 10 thou gap is probably right, but I would be happy with half that. (On the basis that removing metal is easier than putting it back!)

However, before worrying about fitting, check the shaft, and if OK, get the bearings, and then ask here and I or someone else, will run through the fitting an adjusting process.

As for the cross slide, it could be built up with weld, by silver soldering a piece in, by fabricating a new section, either bolted of welded / silver soldered in place, or even by making an entire new top.
However, I favour trying the lazy (and cheapest) way. Buy a tube of JBWeld, follow the instructions and that should do the job. Make sure you clean the joint thoroughly first though.

[classicsteve]

It is usually the death of one of these old lathes when the clamp is snapped by someone trying to take all the play out of a clapped bearing. Welding cast iron is quite a challenge, and a bigger challenge is to make sure the bore is perfect afterwards.

However, you say this was done some time ago, so maybe it is OK. You say you just pinched up the bolt and then backed it off one flat and got 0.19 to 0.2mm play. Now lets see - one flat is a sixth of a turn, and the thread pitch is probably about 22tpi (5/16 BSF), so backing it off one flat should give you (1/6)times(25.4/22) = 0.19mm play.

So it seems you have exactly the amount of play you would expect if you back it off one flat. I would back it off just enough to not bind and let it bed in, it might then take a fraction more. But a flat is a large adjustment.

With any cracked and re-welded cast iron I would say it is even more likely to go ping than a good one. I would be nervous about adjusting it, and I would be thinking about your next lathe.

Steve

[steam4ian]

G'day Ora

I assume you already have the lathe and are not putting out good money for it.

There are some cheap and cheerful fixes.

First open up the bearings an see that there is still white metal, if there is and they are not badly scored continue.
Do the shells close completely over the shaft? See later.
Check the side play (across the bed) vs the up and down play

Google "Rollie's Dad", you should find a method of setting the alignment of the headstock to the bed. Follow this method to see how well the headstock is aligned, you may be able to compensate for any misalignment with what follows.

If the shells close up fully you can file a little off one face so there is a slight gap.

You now pack the bearing with a thin shim, aluminium beer can is about 0.04mm. Enjoy the beer. Place the shim under if the alignment shows the axis is drooping towards the bed, On top if the axis is pointing up. Wear is more likely on the top shell. Don't block the oil hole/s.

Have fun. There is something good about getting your own lathe to work better; it truly becomes yours.

Regards
Ian

[classicsteve]

Good grief Ian, did they actually use white metal on the bearings in the Warwick? I thought all these c1950 lathes had plain bronze bearings - but then the Warwick is not very common - I have never come across one.

Steve

[Deleted]

White metal!!

It took a while but with CSI's skill I found a trace of it on one bearing

Currently this geriatric (60+yr) looking like more trouble than it's worth even if I get it running at all it will probably never be right.

I think I may go and look for a baby maybe something under 30!!!

I know the usual reflex recommendation is Super 7 but a decent one would be over the top ££ especially so as they now have cult status. For reasons of ££ I'll probably have to buy second hand.

I've only one specific need the hole through through mandrel needs to be of the order of 20mm.
4 way or interchangeable tool post would be nice.
300 to 450 mm between centres.


Any sugestions for something decently built


Thanks aamcle

[alanstepney]

I'm surprised it has white metal bearings, but if so, it might make refurbishment easier, should you go that route.

As for alternatives, there are plenty of far Eastern lathes, from various suppliers.
Whilst I'm not over-keen on them, I will admit that the quality is far better than it used to be, and that some people manage to do excellent work on them.

[steam4ian]

G'day Ora et al

So it doesn't have white metalled bearings. I am ever the optimist refusing to believe things are as desparate as others say; a problem can be solved.

The comments about an old lathe only make my suggestions more viable. I wouldn't do it to a Myford unless I was "out the back of Burke".

If you do my cheap and nasty mods you may then be in the position to make new bushes.

When you go for a new lathe you will find most of (All!) the affordable lathes come from China (East to you). I have the little 7x12 which enables me too get some results that surprise me but it is too small for a 5" loco. There is a better version from Warco. From what I see I wouldn't go for the 9x20 but the next larger sizes start to have facilities which are really handy without breaking the budget. Low cost and space made me choose the 7x12 and then set me on the slippery slope, a mill and a second lathe, then the tooling!

BTW, the old lathe can be used for rough turning and turning wood and materials that would damage the bed of your "new" lathe. will still come in handy.

Over to you

Regards
Ian

[classicsteve]

There's quite a lot of mature lathes pass through e-Bay. I bought 4 that way (my newest lathe is about the same age as the one you are thinking of retiring). I like old lathes.

For example I was just looking on eBay at an Atlas which has a gearbox fitted for thread turning - a tidy looking mod, probably cared for by its elderly owner and now being sold following his death. There is also a tidy South Bend, similar circumstance. Screwcutting lathes with a full set of gears are most common, plain turning lathes generally are not of interest to the hobbyist (plain turning Viceroy lathes come up fairly often). There is a lovely looking Myford-built Raglan lathe too. Sadly I have run out of space for new lathes.

There are also quite a few older Chinese lathes pass through e-Bay, but I wouldn't give them house room. You also get some stunning toolroom lathes, but boy are they heavy to move.

Apart from eBay you could look on the 'homeworkshop' website, and ads in the magazines.

So there is a lot of choice, its not just myford or a new chinese lathe. I am not sure which will pass 20mm - quite a few will pass 19mm as that is 3/4inch. You can often find this info on Tony Griffiths excellent website lathes.co.uk - and I just looked up the Atlas and this confirms my suspicions, it takes 0.753" - 19.1mm.

Best of Luck
Steve

[ettingtonliam]

Hi
I had this problem with my first ever lathe (an ML4) over 40 years ago. Assuming that the shaft is reasonably OK, measure the bearings, get some cored bronze stick from College Engineering, and turn some new ones. Split them with a hacksaw, job done. Its not complicated.

Regards
Richard