Hello and Brunell

[miner]

Graham, I phoned you twice today with no answer on your phone, I finally left a message with your answering service sevice to contact me a.s.a.p. I've also left a e-mail with my phone no. to contact me a.s.a.p. So far no contact. This is to inform you that you have 3 day's to contact me by phone starting now or I start legal proccedings against you.

Pete

[jasonb]

Pete, try his mobile number , I would not normally give it out but its on the front page of his site and he also used it when advertising a beam engine

07831611497

Its school half term here and he often says he's been away when its been holiday time. No excuse for not diverting calls or just saying the shop is shut on the answer phone mesage

Jason

POS got that lathe yet?

[miner]

Would anyone in the U.K. know who I would contact in regards to mail/credit card fraud?

Pete

[2tenths]

May 29, 2009 15:46:28 GMT miner said:

Would anyone in the U.K. know who I would contact in regards to mail/credit card fraud?

Pete

Your credit card provider

Tony

[miner]

Tony, It's my understanding and this may be wrong that once your credit card statement is recieved and payed for then you have agreed to the statement, I haven't contacted Visa yet and was planning to do so, But I was hoping for some information on who might or should be contacted in the U.K. about this matter.

I'd also suggest anyone thinking of placing an order with Brunel to review this thread very carefully.

Pete

[2tenths]

May 29, 2009 16:25:03 GMT miner said:

Tony, It's my understanding and this may be wrong that once your credit card statement is recieved and payed for then you have agreed to the statement, I haven't contacted Visa yet and was planning to do so, But I was hoping for some information on who might or should be contacted in the U.K. about this matter.

I'd also suggest anyone thinking of placing an order with Brunel to review this thread very carefully.

Pete

Right, now got the complete picture. Still reckon to contact Visa as it appears that you have paid (Visa statement) and not received the goods.

Edit

Is it legal to process a credit card before the goods are ready to be sent or at the least, it is bad business practice? Still reckon on contacting Visa.

Anyone on here with the T&Cs of credit card protocol?

Tony

[jasonb]

There is a bit here about "buying from home" as they call it, see the second section about goods not being delivered on time.

www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/buying_at_home/go-wrong/

If you enter Brunells postcode (zip code) at the top of this page it will take you to his local trading standards office, e-mail them and see what they suggest.

www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/

And some info on distance selling

www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/legal/distance-selling-regulations/

Jason

[miner]

Jason, Thank you for the information and I will be checking that out. I'm starting to run up a rather large I.O.U. bill with the informantion you have provided, Someday I hope I can repay you. If we ever, Or when we can get to the U.K. then minimum I owe you is lunch.

Pete

[vpitool]

Hi All,
Would like to add a few comments about my ongoing experience with Graham and Brunel. After inventorying and looking at the casting in detail would have to say that i'm a little disappointed. Its clear to me that they were cut from the spure and put in plastic bags and shipped. No attempt was made at cleaning up or pickling the casting and they arrived with alot of sand, carbon and parting powder. I'm sure I have a least a couple days work or more to prepare these for machining. Many have imperfections and mold failures and will require much hand work to be usable. Was also rather dismayed to find the cores still in the cylinder and column casting.
In addition to the flywheel the smaller "drive pulley" casting was also not shipped.
Have emailed Graham with this information and, as usual, no response.
These seem like an unusual choices from someone who professes to be trying to improve the perception of his company's quality and service..

Andy

[vpitool]

Forgot to mention that I also have no drawings or construction notes yet. These were purportedly mailed a couple months ago but I have never received them. Even the roughest castings are pretty much useless without the drawings.

Andy

[vpitool]

Drawings and notes for the M.E Beam finally showed up today June 4. Mailed May 30 from the UK. Have also received some email response from Graham. Lots of reasons for the delay in shipping and lack of communications "small company, family business, working out of the UK" etc. Never really answered my questions about the quality and condition of or when I might receive the balance of my castings.

Andy

[miner]

As a customer I can fully appreciate the difficulty's of trying to get a business started and the world's economic problems do nothing to help, BUT, If your'e not willing to keep your customers advised of problems/delays, Then to be honest you have no one to blame BUT yourself. E-Mail is pretty well free after the monthly payment, Yes it takes some time to deal with, But every other buisiness I've dealt with manages this just fine.

Graham finally phoned me at home a couple of day's ago about my order, He was very concerened about my comments here.

MY OPIONION IS, if he had been just as concerrned at informing me of the status of my order then THERE WOULD BE NO COMMENTS FROM ME HERE!!!!

After reading Vpittool's experience I told Graham that my order was canceled. He then said he would phone me again tommorow morning. Well, We will see but my order is still canceled.

Pete

[k11gmh]

Hello you Andy forgot to mention we offered to replace the casting if you were not happy with the quality can not do much more to help.Peter also thanks for the comments but again you forgot to mention that your castings sat at the Canadian Customs for some time before being returned to us at our expence as not collected.As I have said before we have made some mistakes but with regard to all the comments there are two sides to every story .And to jason when I am out the phone is diverted to my mobile and to let you know I was working in Ireland over the holiday weeks as with comments like credit card fraud well that takes the biscuit we have never frauded anybody believe me the legal aspect for those comments concern me and my family !!!

[k11gmh]

Just thought I would finish the discussion with Peter from Canada I am dissapointed you have chose to cancel the order which has all ready been to Canada and come back just to let all those people know we did forfull our obligation to supply goods but here is what happened in Canada when the customs opened the parcel to inspect then checked the documents on the outside of the parcel they by mistake folded the documents and put the wrong side to show the delivery destination in this case a PO box number 2--9 ect ect not the delivery address as shown on the bottom of the document as printed from the web site order which can not be changed so as the parcel went on its way the parcel sat at a mail centre because our agent will not deliver to a PO box number because it needed to be signed for as proof of delivery hence being returned to us some months later I hope this ends the saga Peter but sorry you cancelled the order its a shame we were slow in responding but like we have said before we have made mistakes but at least I admit that cheers Peter I hope no hard feelings
regards Graham

[vpitool]

A few more thoughts on Brunel and company. In fact I did not forget to mention that Graham had offered to replace any castings that were not usable. I just don't think that information is particularly creditable as I have yet to receive a full set of castings from the original order.

Lets recap here, original order placed April 16. Graham said the shipping time would be "3-5 days" and the drawings were in the mail. The drawings showed up June 5 and I still don't have all the castings....

Andy

[vpitool]

Thought I would take a minute and finish this tale of mystery and intrigue. I want to state clearly that I did in fact eventually receive all of the castings and plans from Graham. I also received an phone call from Graham explaining the difficulties he had been experiencing. I have no doubt that Graham is sincere in his efforts to provide good service to his customers. I conclude however, based on this experience, that he is not accurate or realistic in stating proposed delivery times or meeting the delivery he has committed to. If it takes 6-8 weeks to get the castings and drawings out the door than simply say so. No customer particularly wants to hear that but in my view a realistic assessment is, in the final analysis, better for all concerned.
Andy

[Laurie_B]

Two years ago I ordered a set of castings for Brunell's 'Dredger Engine'.After a while I began to wonder why the castings hadn't arrived.By email I was told that they were having problems with their suppliers.As I don't live far from Burton,my castings were eventually delivered in person,with many apologies for the delay.So much so they let me have the drawings and copy of the construction article for free,so it all worked out well in the end.

The castings were covered in sand and had rather a lot of flash,but a wire brush and a rough old file soon sorted that out.The castings were very good quality otherwise,and the dredger engine was a very interesting project to build-very well designed by the late T.D.Walshaw,aka 'Tubal Cain'

[klank]

I feel compelled to resurrect this topic, in the light of my on-going dealings with Brunel Models.

I do not like airing problems in this way, but in the light of my experiences, it may be of interest to others to add to the comments listed earlier in this thread. There are many common points.

This thread came to my attention, sadly, too late for me to re-consider the order I placed with Brunel for a "Side Rod Engine" kit of castings, together with the (as advertised) pack of materials and fixings to finish said engine.
My wife wanted to get me a "new engine project" for my birthday, and asked me to pick something out (within an agreed budget) which would be her present to me - bless her.

After a lot of searching around the web. for advertised kits of all kinds of stationary engines, I liked the look of this engine as advertised on what is seemingly a good looking web site (with its own forum!).
Previously, my dealings with other model engineering suppliers have always been first class (Hemmingway, Reeves, Polly etc.) and I had no reason to doubt that this firm would be any different.

On Sept. 22nd I telephoned Brunel and spoke to a gentleman (?Graham?) who, on first talking to him, appeared extremely pleasant and knowledgeable about model engineering. We discussed options for the build of the kit and he said he would check stocks and telephone me back with a price for what I wanted. I was impressed when he volunteered that if I made a mess of one of the castings, he would replace it free of charge - great I thought - what a nice firm to deal with!

He returned the call later, we agreed a price and I asked that the complete kit and other items must arrive at my address by "a week on Monday" - Oct. 5th. - in time for my birthday. He promised that this was quite possible - one casting having to be done to complete the kit (the cylinder casting) - but that there was a casting session to be done "tomorrow" so all would be o.k.
ON THAT BASIS I placed the order - he said that as he had been scammed too many times by people using credit/debit cards, he could only accept a cheque - which I duly posted that afternoon with a letter confirming the order and agreed delivery date. He agreed to let me know when the kit would be shipped so someone would be available to accept delivery at my end - he had my telephone number from his own call-recognition 'phone and I gave him my e-mail address.

That last telephone call, when I placed the order turned out to be the only time he has EVER telephoned me back when he said he would.

A week went by, and I had heard nothing, so I telephoned Brunel to find out what was going on - particularly if my cheque had arrived safely and whether the casting had been done.
All I ever got was the usual recorded message - "can't take your call, leave a message and I'll ring you back".
I left several telephone messages asking what the position was and an e-mail message on his web-site also.

By now, I was getting somewhat anxious (the amount of money involved was a lot to me and my wife). My bank told me the cheque had been presented and had cleared on the 26th. Sept. Too late to stop it!

After many many telephone calls, leaving messages, I finally got through to Graham.
Excuses were proffered - he was evidently working in Ireland, that his "son" had been in charge whilst he was away on business, and nothing had been done, and yes the casting was being done that afternoon and the order would be shipped tomorrow etc. etc. and he would let honestly me know when it was sent.

Still no package, waiting in for the parcel post fruitlessly, frustration turns to anger, more 'phone messages left.

On the 10th. Oct. I was finally able to catch Graham live on the 'phone - this time an excuse that the Post Office Parcels depot had dropped the package, the label had somehow come off and the parcel had been sent all around England. He asked me for my address and post code (which was on the letter I had sent with my cheque nearly two weeks ago) and he would get the post office to re-do the label and send it guaranteed next day delivery.

At last, a package did arrive on Oct. 12th. It contained the kit of castings, but no materials/fixings.

The cyl. casting as supplied appeared to have been partly fettled by Brunel, revealing a large, deep casting flaw across the face of the valve chest/steam port area. It should have been rejected and replaced as "unfit for purpose".

I telephoned Graham that day (Monday) and was surprised that he answered!! He was very apologetic when I told him about the casting (who fettled it before packing it?) and he would get a new one done tomorrow, and would send the pack of materials straight away.

Another week goes by, nothing heard - despite many telephone calls and several messages left in growing anger and frustration.

All in all, I must have made over 50 fruitless telephone calls by now - to the usual recorded message.

I finally left a message asking for the pack of materials/fixings to be sent that day or a refund cheque for the excess money I had paid.

Nothing heard for several days.

Eventually, I used a different telephone (remember - Graham has "call recognition") and called Brunel early on Friday Oct. 26th. - and got through to Graham immediately.
As soon as I spoke, he knew who I was and in a very adgitated manner was given the news that "his father had been taken ill and he would get back to me within the hour".

Two hours later, no reply.

During this two hours, a friend of mine telephoned Brunel to ask about buying some stocks of materials. Graham answered the 'phone quite normally, appeared very happy, charming, chatty and quite at ease to talk. He promised to check the stock bins and call back in 5 minutes. (No call back to my friend has ever happened since!!)

I telephoned Brunel again later that day and was able to speak to Graham, who this time was extremely apologetic about the way he had treated me, he had no excuses and was so sorry and asked me to accept his apologies. The pack of materials was being taken to the Post Office, by him that afternoon and I would get it "tomorrow" and the new cylinder casting would follow shortly.
Somewhat mollified by Graham's apologies, I agreed to let the matter close but made the point that he should put himself in the shoes of his customers - running what appears to be a "one man band" with totally spurious and un-fulfilled promises and excuses does not sit well with someone who has paid (cash effectively) for unforthcoming products.
He had the grace to agree that this was so and to be fair, added that he had put some extra items of stock in the pack.

The materials/fixings pack arrived the next morning.

On opening it and examining the contents (which did include a very useful printed list of stocks, sizes and shape of materials as needed to complete the kit) - it was obvious that some bits of bar stock were included extra, but 7 very necessary items were missing - all of the stainless/silver steel bar stock for the crankshaft, piston and valve rods, and governor, together with some brass hex and a mild steel block.

So I am yet again back to leaving messages re. lack of stocks and still no cyl. casting.
Not unexpectedly, up to now - still no reply - and no answer when I telephone.

I suppose the least one can expect from any firm such as Brunel, running a bona-fide web site advertising all kinds of kits and selling stocks of materials, is some person to be running the business on a day to day basis!

At the least, telephone calls should be answered with the truth - however bad it is - the customer must be told what is going on.

No excuses for treating the customer this badly - even after proffering abject apologies.

My inevitable conclusion from the above treatment received by Brunel is that, there is nobody there seeming to care at all once the money is taken.
Excuses seem to trip off the tongue too easily with unending false promises made to rectify matters.

I have found the whole experience of dealing with Brunel Models shameful that there is such a lack of honour being shown, despite an earlier verbal, seemingly heartfelt apology for poor treatment.

I have little hope of ever getting what I paid for.

[Jo]

Sounds like Brunel are taking on the mantel once worn by Reeves. Shame because they were very efficient when I ordered my Double Tandem Compound a few years ago.

I am please to say that Reeves are now not taking your money until they are actually in a position to post the castings.

Jo

[alanstepney]

I must add that I have recently heard of other complaints about Brunel.

These include,
Lack of communication,
Failure to deliver as and when promised,
Incomplete deliveries,
Some poor quality items,
And, it appears, a general lack of concern for the customer.


Whilst I appreciate the difficulties that many small businesses have, and realise that they cannot afford to carry massive stocks, the fact remains that most of "us" are reasonable people and are prepared to accept things (such as slow delivery) that may not be accepted in other markets, PROVIDED that we are told what is happening, and promises are kept.

Good communication costs little, so there is no excuse.

I must add that with any supplier who does not adhere to good practice, there are several remedies.

Contacting Trading Standards may be a first step. (Some people claim this to be worthwhile, although I have not found it so.)

The Small Claims Court (as it is commonly called) IS worthwhile, and a far simpler process than many imagine.
(I have recently taken two companies to court, and won in both cases, thus recovering my money, plus interest and costs.)

Whilst it is sad to see any of "our" suppliers mentioned here, in this way, a bad supplier does harm to the hobby, as well as causing problems and distress to fellow model engineers.