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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 14:14:52 GMT
What I would wish to know is, it may be welded on the surface but how well does the weld penetrate the joint? When I was tested for welding certificates I had to section sample joints to prove that they were good welds! Has Marco produced any sample cross section photographs and are they fully CE marked? It's academic now Kwil, I just placed the order! And they are CE marked etc.. He's making boilers for Maidstone Engineering, and one of our members has seen his work: he raved about it this morning for quite a long time...... JB |
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Post by chris vine on Nov 29, 2009 22:43:03 GMT
Hi JB
I am really sorry you have got this far and now ordered a boiler from a maker.
It is probably too late, but surely it is worth really cleaning up that butt joint and having another heat up, with a very general heat this time and seeing what you can do.
One tiny tip, (from someone who has not made a boiler for years) is to really cover all the existing joints with plenty of flux. This will protect them when hot.
I cannot believe that after seeing your skill at silver soldering and all the experience you have picked up along the way, that you can't fix this.
Commiserations anyway from Scotland.
Chris.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 23:02:03 GMT
Hi Chris. I'm normally quite tenacious, but on this occasion I'd had enough. I stuck to the words and music but it didn't work for me so I ordered a new boiler. Life's too short.....!
JB
PS: What little skill I have picked up I will apply to the next loco!
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Post by drjohn on Nov 30, 2009 0:57:00 GMT
That's a real shame JB.
But you can comfort yourself that you've taught a lot of people on this forum a great deal about boiler making.
DJ
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2009 7:15:43 GMT
That's a real shame JB. But you can comfort yourself that you've taught a lot of people on this forum a great deal about boiler making. DJ Or is a whip round something that Sadists do on their birthday..... JB |
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Post by drjohn on Dec 1, 2009 7:44:09 GMT
That was a bit of a conversation and sympathy killing reply!  DJ |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2009 9:30:33 GMT
That was a bit of a conversation and sympathy killing reply! DJ Tongue in cheek DJ, tongue in cheek. JB |
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steam4ian
Elder Statesman
One good turn deserves another
Posts: 2,069
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Post by steam4ian on Dec 1, 2009 10:53:26 GMT
G'day JB
Have you thought about resurrecting the boiler. You could cut out the throat plate and replace it.
Your problem forced me to look at the AMBSC Code. They don't allow butt joints at the throat plate unless they are brazed, otherwise the throat plate to barrel joint must be flanged.
Unfortunately this shows the fallacy of following an "established design" as opposed to a Code. Looking at your otherwise excellent work I question whether the back-head should have gone on first. I suggest one should work to the back including the stays probably with the foundation ring last.
If a whip round is what sadists do, then making a boiler must be for masochists!
Regards
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2009 12:12:08 GMT
G'day JB Have you thought about resurrecting the boiler. You could cut out the throat plate and replace it. If a whip round is what sadists do, then making a boiler must be for masochists! Regards Ian Hi Ian. I might look at it again when I've made a few more boilers (simple ones....) JB |
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Post by drjohn on Dec 2, 2009 7:44:50 GMT
Your problem forced me to look at the AMBSC Code..... Gimme a break Ian - AMBSC - Australia's Moronic Bloody Silly C**ts who's regulations are mere lip service, and have absolutely no bearing on real life situations - a load of pontificating old farts! I was promised full disclosure of all the facts as to what the situation was with the cullinder etc etc ... but absolutely nothing either from the now retired Ian Kirby of the AMBSC or Jeff Wakeman of AALS - shades of Tony Blair's promise to release all the facts about 7/7.  DJ  So no doubt I'll get another whine about - "we've heard enough about your boiler .... move on!" But I'm talking safety. |
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steam4ian
Elder Statesman
One good turn deserves another
Posts: 2,069
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Post by steam4ian on Dec 2, 2009 11:22:40 GMT
G'day DrJ Maybe you were being ascerbic? I had studied the pictures of your boiler and can't find the registration number stamped on the boiler in any of the pictures. I would have expected it low down on the backhead. Seems sus to me.   I'd say that somewhere is Oz is a Simplex with boiler reg. NO 0834 running around a track and a dud imitation boiler (yours) under someone's bench waiting for another sucker.  I could contact Central Coast and say I have been offered a boiler with that registration and ask for the provenance. Should raise a comment or two. ;D ;D Nuff said on that. Don't condemn a very workable Code because some aerosol took short cuts. Regards Ian |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2009 11:31:05 GMT
Hi Guys. I'm a bit concerned that this constructive and well read thread is going to get hijacked.......
Perhaps you could carry on your conversation in 'Boiler Design and Construction?
JB
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Post by drjohn on Dec 2, 2009 12:02:07 GMT
Many apologies JB for interjecting a personal grudge in your thread - I will desist.
DJ
P.S. Are you sure "welded" copper is acceptable?
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Post by GWRdriver on Dec 2, 2009 19:28:00 GMT
This doesn't pertain to this thread but it seems as good a place and time as any to say that I have just now acquired a set of drawings and castings for the LBSC 3.5"ga Brit. This project, should I decide to go forward with it, will be a ways down the road, after completing my current project, but I thought I would invite anyone who has built the Britannia to drop me a note privately to say hello and offer your comments on the project.
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simonwass
Part of the e-furniture
Cecil Pagets 2-6-2 of 1908. Engine number 2299. Would make a fascinating model....
Posts: 472
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Post by simonwass on Dec 12, 2009 15:47:31 GMT
A bit late in the train of events for this comment but worth mentioning for others.
I have now sussed out why the join failed after going through the photos again. The barrel has contracted faster than the tubes & flues which has put stress on the weak (only by design) throatplate joint. I'd say the boiler is more than recoverable if care is taken in warming and subsequent cooling, if a burner is used in the firebox to get some very controlled heat up the tubes they will heat up as the outer barrel is dealt with. To cool, wrap the lot up tight.
Morale of this message is always make the fixing of the tubes in the smokebox tubeplate as near to the end as possible, even after doing all the stays. This allows the boiler to move with uneven heating. The only operations after fixing the smokebox tubeplate in should be fault rectification and then be very thorough with heating. I hope LBSC's words & music are not at fault again!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2009 18:41:29 GMT
I hope LBSC's words & music are not at fault again! Simon. I'm going to do a 'post mortem' later, but I just double checked the words and music and I followed the sequence faithfully i.e: Boiler shell soldered to wrapper Tubes soldered to Combustion Chamber Fit firebox and tube assembly into boiler shell Rivet crownstay flanges to wrapper Fit and solder smokebox tubeplate Solder crownstay flanges Fit backhead Fit foundation ring Fit bushes Final brazing job, which LBSC did (or says he did) in one heat: Foundation ring Backhead Firehole aperture Dome bush Safety valve bushes I didn't do this in one heat, and that may have been my undoing, and I didn't braze the butt joint, but on reflection, I should have done the smokebox tubeplate last of all which may, as you say, have prevented the joint failure. I have every intention of mugging up on my oxy, and fixing the thing at a later date. Meanwhile, I'm looking forward to my nice shiny commercial boiler! JB  |
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kwil
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 383
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Post by kwil on Dec 12, 2009 21:23:31 GMT
Simonwass, see my note Nov 26th, glad someone agrees with me
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 19:40:39 GMT
Final Chapter on my Brit Boiler. Put it on ebay last week: 'Brit Boiler for repair' Much to my surprise I received £142 for it, and the buyer is very happy.....
John
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Post by Jim on Jan 24, 2014 21:04:29 GMT
That's good news John but still sad that you decided to part with it rather than attempt a repair yourself. Does this mean that you have stopped work too on your Britannia?
Jim
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 22:23:41 GMT
That's good news John but still sad that you decided to part with it rather than attempt a repair yourself. Does this mean that you have stopped work too on your Britannia? Jim Hi Jim. For the time being, yes, I've stopped work on the Brit: I just can't raise any enthusiasm for it. Perhaps when I get back from my World tour in the mobile workshop then I'll start up again! Regards John |
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