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Post by nzlcyclist on Mar 19, 2006 11:34:38 GMT
Hi guys, I am new the Live Steamers scene (not the actual attending of layouts etc, just the building side) and want to get started with a simple 0-4-0 battery-electric locomotive before progressing. I wish to build as much of it myself due to the cost involved. I am thinking my best way to source the axles, bearings and drive chain/sprockets would be from a professional builder such as Dave Giles from Ikon Locomotive works - www.ikoneng.com/trains.htm - he has told me of a source I can use that is local to me for an electric motor, of about $60/motor (NZD). What I really need to know is what I need to do for a chassis and frame. My father is an Industrial electrician, so the wiring side of things will be easy. I have a mate that is a Welder, and another who works in the Petroleum services (tanks etc) so getting sheet metal etc and getting it welded is no problem. I just need to know what I need. By just looking I need 2 beams, left and right that the wheels slot into. A base plate that covers the 2 beams and provides a base for batteries, control gear, hood etc. Also I need front and end plates for buffers and couplings. That is all that I know. Any help, or suggestions of other boards would be much appreciated. It has also been suggested to me to find plans/drawings but google has left me empty handed for these. Kind Regards, Brendon |
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Post by havoc on Mar 19, 2006 11:37:51 GMT
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waggy
Statesman
Posts: 747
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Post by waggy on Mar 19, 2006 13:17:35 GMT
Brendan, Have a look at some of the club sites listed on the home page of this site. I'm sure you'll see something near to your project. I believe the Leyland club have a strong diesel / electric section, I'm sure they would help you out via the 'net. Bit of a long way for a day out though from where you live! Good luck, Waggy.  |
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JohnP
Hi-poster
Posts: 186
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Post by JohnP on Mar 19, 2006 20:31:44 GMT
You need some stretchers to define the width between the frames, often the buffer beams act as stretchers for the ends, but some intermediate ones won't go amiss.
Regards,
JohnP
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Post by nzlcyclist on Mar 20, 2006 7:09:57 GMT
JohnP, hardly any of what you said just made sense.
Havoc, Thanks for the link. With a rigid frame like in that link but a sprung upper body, he claims that the frame is flexy enough to allow for deformities in the track. Would this be enough for track that isn't 100%?
Also in regards to the 2 speed 24v Wiper motor - would it be possible to rewire the control for it (keep in Mind my dad is a sparky) to make it variable?
Cheers,
Brendon
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Post by the_viffer on Mar 20, 2006 10:37:12 GMT
Also in regards to the 2 speed 24v Wiper motor - would it be possible to rewire the control for it (keep in Mind my dad is a sparky) to make it variable? Cheers, Brendon Usually these days people employ chopper drives which allow continually variable speed control. You certainly can make them but they are commercially available from 4QD www.4qd.co.uk and Parkside and others. |
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Post by havoc on Mar 20, 2006 19:39:32 GMT
Well, that depends on how ridgid your frame is and how much less than 100% the track is. But he loads it only at the 4 corners. And the frame isn't very heavy and only bolted together, not welded.
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JohnP
Hi-poster
Posts: 186
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Post by JohnP on Mar 20, 2006 19:44:50 GMT
Sorry nzcyclist! Let's start with the frames first. These are known as either bar or plate. Can't say much about bar frames, very popular in the US, but the UK mainly used plate frames. These are made from steel a little over 1" thick in full size. They run (usually) the full length of the loco and are usually set inside the wheels, so from the front they'd look like this I I. To keep them the right distance apart, stretchers are used Thes can be anything from another piece of flat plate to very complicated castings or fabrications. The simplest kind would have pieces of angle rivetted at each end to enable it to be joined to the frames. At the front and (for tank engines or modern traction) the rear, is a longer plate with the buffer(s) and coupling gear attached, known as the buffer beam. This is longer than the distance across the frames, so it projects out either side. Because of this the angles are attached at the ends of the frames and part way along the buffer beam. Have a look at www.prr.org.au/nmrebuild/nmrebuild12.phpor www.rhbnc.ac.uk/~uhaa009/bb/pics/02c/02cdh005h.jpgThe first shows a computerised stress analysis program, the second shows the frames and a stretcher from aGreat Western "Dukedog" being renovated on the Bluebell Railway. Hope this helps. JohnP |
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Post by GeorgeRay on Mar 20, 2006 20:29:53 GMT
JP Just to set the record straight the Dukedog has been renovated and has been in service for some time. |
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Post by nzlcyclist on Mar 21, 2006 7:43:30 GMT
OK so I've decided on a slight change of plan here....
I want traction, power and battery life... SO I've upped to 4 batteries (car size, about 170mmx240mm) and probably 2 or 3 motors. And up to a 0-6-0 format, modeling say a Diesel Shunter of some sort.
Now what is the maximum practical wheelbase length for a rigid 6 wheel section? and also will this be long enough for a complete loco that is probably going to be about 37" in length? Keeping in mind this is 7.25" track.
Regards,
Brendon
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Post by chameleonrob on Mar 21, 2006 10:14:40 GMT
what is the maximum practical wheelbase length for a rigid 6 wheel section? take the minimum track radius and divide by 20, this is the maximum, allow for faster mainline running by reducing this and/or having sideways movement in some of the axles rob |
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Post by burnettsj on Mar 21, 2006 11:53:55 GMT
what is the maximum practical wheelbase length for a rigid 6 wheel section? take the minimum track radius and divide by 20, this is the maximum, allow for faster mainline running by reducing this and/or having sideways movement in some of the axles rob This sounds about right. A 7.25 GWR tender is 2'10"long (wheel base 23") and will easily go around a 40 foot radius - and probably less (never tried tho - as the engine and tender drag beam touch - resulting in a close inspection of the ballast). Also one thing I learnt a few years ago - in full size - the middle coupled axles generally have slightly thinner flanges which improves radius of curve that can be negotiated. I am sure most people know, but I will mention for completeness, 10-coupled engines (such as the 9F) generally have flangelesss driving wheels to further improve the radius of curve that can be negotiated. |
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Post by nzlcyclist on Mar 22, 2006 12:01:34 GMT
OK so I have finally decided on an actual locomotive that I want to model. I have selected some of the american UP switchers - the long lower body on them is ideal for the large bank of batteries that I want to have. This will have 2 bogie trucks with 2 axles each. 4-0-4 or however you want to put it.
Somewhat larger than I intended but it will be able to pull a bigger load than originally planned and be easier to work on because of it's size (I'm 19 so lifting etc isn't as much of a hassle as some of our older members find)
I intend to first talk to a guy down the road that sells electric motors for this sort of thing, and can also sort out the drivetrain to get the power down. Then I will get the 2 bogie/trucks ready, WITH motors. Then it will be a matter of building up the base plate with beams etc ready to drop on top of the trucks. Run the cabling. Install control box on a lead. Install electronics. Install batteries and a temp casing. This will bring it to a functional state, while I put the very fine details onto the case/body.
Is this a sensible plan? Thanks for thoughts and suggestions.
Regards,
Brendon
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Post by havoc on Mar 22, 2006 19:41:28 GMT
So told, it makes sense. Wait until you come to the details...
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Post by Phil Sutton on Mar 22, 2006 20:38:24 GMT
Ah,the devil is always in the details. ;D
Phil
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Post by nzlcyclist on Mar 23, 2006 0:35:19 GMT
aha yes the details... but are you talking about the finer engineering details (my girlfriend's dad is an engineer so can help me) or the aesthetic details or visual details on the body etc?
Regards,
Brendon
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Post by havoc on Mar 23, 2006 19:36:57 GMT
Whatever you like, take your pick!
At the moment I'm making plans for my next engine. If told broadly like you did, all I need is a frame, a boiler, an engine, some way to transfer the power to the axles and a couple of trucks with wheels. Oh, and a body that fits over it.
Not much really...only I just spend a week figuring out a way to make bearings for my cranckshaft! The boiler took about a month just for the basic form. And I'm going in for the third revision of the engine. Still haven't a single clue how to connect the engine to the wheels, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it I guess.
It always come to the point of how to make something with the tools, knowledge and materials you have.
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Post by steammadman on Mar 27, 2006 21:24:38 GMT
GO JOIN A CLUB.
Talk to some of the senior members,the quiet ons are usually best,
get in their good books and go from there.
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jackrae
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,335
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Post by jackrae on Mar 28, 2006 6:23:52 GMT
Oh for the silent ones.
We used to have a member in our club who knew everything - and let folk know it.
Whilst there is no doubt he had extremely clever design and machining skills, he was also responsible for driving away countless numbers of potential new members.
Still, that's what clubs are all about.
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Post by havoc on Mar 28, 2006 18:17:14 GMT
On the club topic: I guess it depends on the club. While we have some very knowledgable members, they aren't the most communicative. It can even be hard just to get to know where you can buy some metal. Let alone help you designing a new engine.
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