Industrial Meths

[chris vine]

Hi All,

Do any of you buy industrial Meths for running boilers and have a licence for it?

I was told to write to the customs and excise office, here in Glasgow, like all gauge 1 people, and to ask for a licence to order it from the chemist. I explained that it was for burning in a model locomotive and enclosed a copy of the instructions spelling out that industrial meths is what should be used.

They wrote back a snotty letter saying I did not have a need for it and the licence was refused. (They do not accept that it can be used as a fuel.)

Annoyed? Yes. (we pay for these cretins!)

What do the successful purchasers put on the form??

Cheers Chris.

[Steve M. W]

Chris
try an email to this site and see if they can help. Not used them myself yet just a site I found on the net as a supplier of sulfuric acid for boiler making.
www.thechemicalshop.com

Steve

[ron]

Chris, You have my sympathy, I've had experience of dealing with these people years ago at my work, my advice is stay away from them, they're on a different planet, I think they get the dropouts from the CSA and the DVLA

Ron

[havoc]

Why do you need a licence for methanol? Maybe if you start ordering in hectoliter, but for a few liter now and then?

[chris vine]

Hi,



Thanks for that so far,
I was told I needed a licence.

The chemical shop looks as though it will be the best bet, I wonder if they will demand a licence from me?
My only question now is What is industrial meths? Is is Methanol or denatured Ethanol? or neither?

Chris

[havoc]

I would say methanol. Not much point in calling it "meths" otherwise. Unless it is short for something more sinister...

[baggo]

Hi Chris,

So far as I can discover, industrial meths is Industrial Methylated Spirits (IMS) and is about 95 to 99% pure ethanol (ethyl alcohol) and I would imagine is probably virtually the same as the ordinary meths that you can buy over the counter at chemists, B&Q etc. Apparently it is available in a completely clear version as opposed to the normal purple. This may be a purer form.

As you suggest it is 'denatured' by adding other chemicals such as methanol, basically to make it poisonous to try and stop people drinking it! Also it means you don't have to pay excise duty on it.

Methanol ( methyl alcohol or wood alcohol) is another kettle of fish and is to be avoided (unless you want to make Biodiesel!) as it is highly toxic and can be absorbed through the skin.

John

PS thanks to SW for posting the website for Lab Chemicals. I've been trying to find a supplier for sulphuric acid for ages. Ordered some yesterday.

[greasemonkey]

HI All
Slightly of topic but I get my sulphric acid from the local motor factors/battery dealer in 5ltr containers.

Andy

[Uzzy]

I take umbridge from Rons remarks as I am one of the dropouts from the CSA or DVLA. I am sorry to say that I cannot help you with your quest but would assume that it you contact one of the enquiry offices that someone will be able to assist you. I may well endevour to look into this and give you a definative answer though don't hold your breath you know what us civil servants are like!!!!!

[chris vine]

Sorry if you are offended Uzzy, It is just that they were so unhelpful. A point blank refusal!

Thanks Baggo, John, I think we may be getting somewhere...

Chris.

[chris vine]

Next thought.

The material sold by the chemical shop is to UN1170 which, on looking up is 95% concentration. I think the rest is water?

What concentration is the stuff one gets from the diy shop? I ask this as the reason for trying to get the industrial stuff in the first place was because it is meant to have much less water in it....

C

[baggo]

Chris,
found this supplier on the web that actually manufactures various forms of ethanol including IMS- probably worth getting in touch with them. They can supply in quantities from 1 litre upwards.
Company is Joseph Mills (Denaturants) Ltd:

www.ethanol.co.uk/

I would assume that the majority of the impurities in the denatured ethanol are the other chemicals used to 'denature' it,
John

[ron]

Uzzy
Sorry to have offended you, but I'm afraid I found my time of trying to work with Customs a totally negative experience, a prime example of everything that is wrong with officialdom in this country nowadays, I stand by what I said, it was like dealing with peolpe from a different planet. The DVLA is another classic example of beaurocracy gone mad, I shouldn't really have included the CSA as I have no personal experience of them.

Ron

[Uzzy]

I have had a look at work and it woukld appear that what you require is a Notice 701/19 Jan 2002 this notice relates to menthanol and fuels. I am also just going to fire off an email to one of the enquirey teams and see what answer I get. I will keep you posted of cause.

[chris vine]

Cheers uzzy, I am sure you will at least find out the correct answer and whether I will need a piece of paper to buy from the firms mentioned here.

Chris.

[SteveW]

Guys,

It occurs to me that the problems experienced with the various Civil Service bodies is performance related pay.

No results then no pay rise. If it's not on the list it doesn't get done 'cus it'll get in the way of stuff on the list. Getting the last tax penny from a company providing free coffee 'cus is counts as pay gets one a pay rise.

I think the system sucks but it's very big with Treasury in order to give the tax payer, all of us, a cheap service. So, you get what you pay for, a cheap service.

[Tony K]

Think you are probably right Steve - part of the "What gets measured, gets done" brigade! Have to measure everything and spend more time measuring and assessing than doing the job. If they were a private company they would not have time to waste like that. Think we would get a better deal if they measured customer satisfaction though, but doubt whether they would dare to link their pay to it - or their pension. Think this is a case of someone trying to work within the rules and doing it properly, just to be shunned by the people he has contacted who cannot be bothered, coupled with rules dreamed up by people who have no idea how to put them into practice. Small wonder most of us surf on the border of the rules! Regards, Tony.

[ron]

And it's spreading like a rash, here's my experience of how to pass a morning in Bliars modern beaurocratic Britain:

Being a relatively honest citizen, decided to pay for some road tax for my TR6, starting 1st May, big mistake.
Went to PO on Thu, lady says I need form V10, gives me one.
Studies form, says I can tax it two working days before the end of the month, excellent, Sat not very convenient, Mon holiday, will do it on Fri.
Fri dawns bright and sunny, off to PO clutching paperwork, lady says we don't use V10 anymore! bring V5.
Returns half hour later with V5.
Lady studies paperwork then says can't tax it till Sat, as Sun is a working day in PO, since when sez me, some POs down in England open on Sunday so that makes it a working day says lady, boss confirms.
Return home with high blood pressure, phones PO helpline, [it takes to about press button 13 to actually speak to a human]Sun NOT working day in PO, phones DVLA can definately tax car on Fri.
Return to PO and politely tells lady the error of her ways, who then gives me the tax disc ;D and the classic line of all beaurocrats, 'I'm only doing what I'm told'
Return home with a strange feeling of having won for once, ;D no wonder an alleged one million people don't bother.

Don't get me started on the new MOT system

Sorry for wandering a bit off topic.

Ron

[Tony K]

With apologies to those reading this as serious modellers, Ron, look on the bright side for at least 3 reasons - you have a TR6, you have all your friends on this website and Joanna Lumley is 60 today. Perhaps you could nip round there in the TR6 and revive some of her memories? Regards, Tony

[ron]

Tony, Miss Lumley 60? maybe she lost a decade somewhere

Ron