Castings CI/GM (And a rant about Blackgates)

[3405jimmy]

Well as this topic seems to have turned into another suppliers rant so here goes.

The trouble with model engineers is they all know the price they want to pay but don’t know the price a given part costs.
Didn’t Reeves just go bust, and I guess that was because they didn’t get enough sales to cover their costs. Luckily some guy with a business making money bought them up or all the castings and parts they supplied, which is an extensive range, would have been lost to the hobby. Which is worse paying a price that ensures the business survives or loosing the business? Lets face it we are in an expensive hobby and it’s not going to get any cheaper.

Where I do think we all have a legitimate whinge is poor service, although this usually could be better described as poor communication. Most suppliers are crap at communication and its key to any business. Even if it’s an e-mail or call saying it will be 6 months before we get a price for that at least you know where you stand.

Anyway I am off to Harrogate now to see if I can grab a last minute bargain

Jim

[waggy]

Nexuas,

I thought of sending my old boiler to China, couldn't buy a one way ticket though!

Waggy.

P.S. She doesn't access this site, phew!!

[GWRdriver]

Didn’t Reeves just go bust, . . . . .

The problem at Reeves was that there were several business decisions and turns of market which unfortunately turned out badly. No one of them could have caused irreparable harm but when taken together over a relatively short period of time they were fatal. Many assumptions were made apparently. A for-instance would be that the acquisitions of the HRM and Don Young lines carried not only a high purchase price but a relatively heavy royalty burden but then proved to be much less poplular than expected, especially the DY range for which sales were dismal to non-existant. There were unexpected foundary problems and then an unsuccesful and costly attempt to establish a branch in the USA . . . . among other factors. In the end it was too much to overcome.

My source for this information was a forner member of Reeves management with whom I was associated for a while.

[gwrfan]

Hi All,

I used to spend hours in the old Reeves shop at Marston Green, and many hundreds of ££'s too! (My wife's probably glad they closed down, LOL). The new Reeves 2000, have been trading since, well 2000 I guess, and that's a great thing. However.... Reeves (R) price for TQ Manor drivers is £209, whereas Blackgates (B) is only £90, for Springbok (R) is £187 and (B) £90, and Maid of Kent (R) £137 and (B) £63! Now are we to assume that Reeves castings are twice the quality of Blackgates? Both have to be machined before use, and I just can't see how anyone would want to pay twice as much from one shop as another, for exactly the same thing.

This isn't a complaint from me at all, far from it, and I have found Reeves, Blackgates and GLR to be easy to deal with, but I have to say that I only buy from Reeves if there is no alternative supplier.

At a time when our hobby is becoming more strictly controlled (H and S legislation, Public Liability Insurance, and so on), we do need to encourage the younger lads and lasses to become model engineers, but most of them will never have seen a real live steam loco, nor had the benefit of any technical training, etc, etc. My own Society, albeit of only 20 members, has no 'juniors', and most of us are over 60!!! If prices of basic materials and castings continue to rise, not to mention purchase of tools and machinery, then are we on the slippery slope?

I can see the day coming when our suppliers will have to reduce their stock holdings, and that means cutting the number of models available to us. That's why I have just paid out a small fortune to buy the remaining Dukedog castings from Reeves - the only supplier for this model. I just have a feeling that in the not too distant future I might not be able to buy them, even if I could afford them.

Now, tomorrow I have to fit a new front door and paint it!

Geoff in wild, wet Cornwall

[Tim Bayliss]

Over the years I've used just about all the suppliers in the UK and a couple in US (I always troll through them for the best deal) and haven't really had any problems with them, I do think GLR are one of the most helpful and Reeves can be a bit stand-offish. And I do heartily agree that if you spend money you should get the catalogue free. Just been in touch with Edward George of Little Samson Traction Engines and had a great response.
I don't like machining GM very much, I find it can be a bit like 'butter', much prefer CI.
Regards,
Tim

[Nexuas]

GWRfan

I have just Joined Reading club, having been to a couple of club nights I have seen only two other young faces, one is working on a battery electric which was made by his Grandad, the other I have not spoken to.

I will admit the reception I recieved on my first visit seamed a little hostile when I suggested that I would be trying to boiler a boiler from scratch with no real experience. However when I turned up a month later with a box full of boiler bushes I had turned myself the attitude changed...

I got a similar response from the father OUTLAW... He did his several years of apprentiship in tool making and he admits that his machining skills are far from perfect. He seamed a little put out when I suggested that I had had no real problems machining the boiler bushes, as I had not really had any training. My only machining experience was Watching my dad machine parts for the loco's that he has made, very little of that was hands on for me...

But without this passing on of skills the hobby is going to die out completely. At Reading the other night the boiler inspector told me to talk to young Bob, and gestured to a table full of grey haired people, "young bob? give us a better clue!!"

The hobby is going to be strangled by three things...

PRICE - Above inflation increases
STIGMA - Not cool or treandy
SKILLS - People are not being trained

[gwrfan]

Hi Nexuas,

I have to agree with all that you say, but ambitious enthusiasm can make up for lots of things. I got interested in model steam locos at the age of about 13, but it wasn't until the age of about 40 that I rediscovered my enthusiasm. ( spent most of my working life in the Army!!). I've had no training or even guidance in using lathes, mills, or even measuring and marking out, but whilst serving in Coventry did make a GWR 'Pansy'. I have several models 'on the go', but I have to admit that it takes me a very long time to think about what I have to do, and how best to do it, like, for instance, turning a chimney, or quartering wheels. I've not really been in a position to call on fellow club members for them to show me how it should be done, but somehow I get on with the job, and so long as it looks OK, and does what is required, I'm quite happy. I'll never make an exhibition piece, but I really don't want to. I want something to run, and have some fun with, and know that I made it.

But, I have to say, money is probably the stumbling block with younger people. Fast cars, holidays in Ibiza, girlfriends - leaves very little for hundreds of pounds of spare cash to spend on chunks of cast iron and brass, hahaha! ;D


I believe that anyone who is a member of a club, especially one of the larger ones, should expect to receive help and encouragement from the more 'mature' members, especially if they have little or no technical experience. However, I would personally steer clear of boiler making, especially in the larger scales. Not that you can't do it, but it's very expensive scrap if it all goes wrong. I know, I've been there!

Geoff

[Nexuas]

gwrfan said:

However, I would personally steer clear of boiler making, especially in the larger scales. Not that you can't do it, but it's very expensive scrap if it all goes wrong. I know, I've been there!

Geoff

I will give it a go, but at the first point things do not go to plan I will be calling on others for help!!! Until you try you have no idea what you can achieve.

I did not really know that I could use a Lathe on my own till I ordered one and gave it a go!!!

[davidimurray]

Excellent - that's what we need - more young guys (and girls) gettting involved. I started back when I was 15 as a volunteer on a railway - by the time I moved away to go into my current job I had worked there in 3 different jobs, including as a project manager while building the extensions, responsible for looking after the locos and even being the draughtsman and assistant to the chief mechanical engineer.

This knowledge of getting your hands dirty is invaluable, something you certainly won't get in a university and the benefit you get over the uni 'rose-tinted' glasses brigade is enormous.

With regards to castings why not machine from solid?

Cheers

Dave

[wayne]

Never had a problem with blackgates, i live 10 minuets away and call in person and find them helpful. However, when some one fobs me off on the phone, if I have laid out money I all ways ask about how I can call in person to resolve the issue, which normally produces a positive result.

On hiding purchases from the other half I say my dad gave me it, or take a day of work and hide it in the corner for a month or so and then move it in to position and say I have had it for ages. the more equipment you have the better it works, my dad used this method for 40 years and my mum only caught on when he could not get the lawn mower in the garage any more.

[Jo]

Speaking of getting it past the other half:

I observed when we arrived back on the Club coach from the midlands show a number of our members putting their purchases in one of the other club members cars and them then leaving in their own.

A couple of days later they had a visit and the purchased items were "lent" to the real owner.........

[spurley]

This sounds like a good ploy, especially as one of the fairer sex is suggesting it as a method of deception ;D

Cheers

Brian

Whose better half understands his needs

[dscott]

Dear all,
Very interesting about the problem with suppliers, I have boxes and boxes of castings mostly from Reeves as I am doing several of their engines including a Duke. Saw a Bulldog at Bristol on Saturday The wind dropped slightly and a bit of sun came out, she ran superbly. One day, one day.
Then we went to a Chinese shop and then up to the next junction and spent 5 hours in Ikea.
They have a lovely dining table that also has a vice built in!!!!
My solution to casting prices is to fabricate as much as possible or chew it from the solid.
I shall try to find a copper suply in China during July.

David.