Castings CI/GM (And a rant about Blackgates)

[Nexuas]

Essentially as the title.

Are GM castings worth the extra cost over the CI option? I understand GM is very good with wear resistance and it seams to be very easy to machine. However is CI harder to work and likely to last less time?

Looking at castings for LILLA in 3 1/2" I could "almost" buy THREE sets of cylinders in CI compare to purchasing a single set in GM? The the GM worth the extra cost?

Also does anyone else produce castings for LILLA other than Blackgates, I have found them to be fairly unhelpful when trying to get a quote for a boiler kit, after over 4 weeks wait I was told that the quote could take upto another four weeks to appear. I ordered some plans 2 months ago and asked if they could include a price list etc... as their website does not contain much info or prices, The plans which cost over £50 arrived the following week the catalouge arrived today and I HAVE BEEBN CHARGED £3 for the privilage of seeing their prices SO THAT I CAN ORDER FROM THEM The £50 would have been closer to £400 had they managed to get me a quote put together!!!!

[Chris Kelland]

Hi,

I am afraid that I only use Blackgates as a last resort, to be frank their service is very poor (being polite!). I wanted a quote for a kit of flanged plates and bits and pieces for the 5" vertical boiler so I used the e-mail address, thinking it might be quicker. Was I ever wrong.

e-mail No 1 01-04-06
e-mail No 2 10-04-06
reply to say they did not get my e-mail? 13-04-06
e-mail No 3 by return.
to date no reply. (05-05-06)

Do these firms want to stay in business?

Live Steam Models get my pat on the back this week! In spite of getting ready for Harrogate they turned my order round in 2 days!

Chris.

[ron]

This seems to be a problem with a lot of suppliers, I asked Brunnel about a month ago for a price for a boiler kit, still waiting! and any dealings I've had with Reeves haven't inspired me with confidence either, they are very slow and their postage is a rip-off.
Ron

[chris vine]

Hi,
I have always found GLR to be very helpful....
Chris.

[3405jimmy]

I thought it was the other way around, if you want a hard wearing and long lasting casting, CI is the way to go. Unless you get your CI castings from a foundry that’s prone to throwing ball bearings into the mix you should get a good, hard wearing, easily machined result.

I was told at one time that people were offering GM castings more to do with ease of production than anything else, but things could have changed by now. The foundry I use can melt just about anything you want. But non-ferrous castings are generally 3-5 times more expensive for an equal pour weight regardless of the complexity of the patterns.

Jim

[alanstepney]

I prefer GM in the smaller sizes, or where that is the appropriate material.
As size (of casting) increases, CI has the advantage of price as much as anything else.

Look at full size, and a lot of items were GM,.... way back.

As for Lilla, I believe Blackgates is the only supplier.
They used to be very good and give an excellent service, but that seems to have slipped, if not fallen, since the death of... heck, I forget her name, but the owners wife.

[greasemonkey]

Hi All
Ive never had a problem with Blackgates, but then I prefer the personal method of communication called the telephone! I ve ordered small parts from them on a friday morning before and if I request first class post usually get them on the saturday. Im not supprised you got charged for a catalouge, I dont know of any supplier that has a seperate sheet of prices for each model.
Reeves are my last resort, they are the most expensive. My prefrence would be Polly models/Bruce Engineering and they can also supply boiler kits for most other models as well.

Andy

[Nexuas]

Even will my tender years I am more a fan of the telephone than e-mail. I like the fact I get an instant response.

As for the catoluge. I could understand if someone phones up cold about just a cataloge that a charge is applicable, but I feel that "Valued custumers" maybe should be entitled to a cataloge FOC?

Further to the CI/GM debate. There was an insert in the cataloge which I did not spot at firsts saying that all GM castings were subject to a 22% increase to the prices listed in the cataloge There fore CI would be much prefered!!!!

[ron]

I think I saw recently on Teletex that copper prices were at an all time high, can't be helping GM prices!

Ron

[alanstepney]

According to my friendly local scrap dealer who I visited last week, ALL scrap is fetching record prices.
He is sending most of his direct to China, apparently the destination of most scrap metal these days.

Doing any building? The bulk price of cement has risen 27% in the past year because of the demand, again, from China.

[GWRdriver]

And here I was thinking I was the only one being treated with complete indifference by British suppliers. ;D I will have to say however that of all the ones mentioned I found GLR tended to be the most reponsive.

[Nexuas]

alanstepney said:

According to my friendly local scrap dealer who I visited last week, ALL scrap is fetching record prices.
He is sending most of his direct to China, apparently the destination of most scrap metal these days.

Doing any building? The bulk price of cement has risen 27% in the past year because of the demand, again, from China.

Apparently i should be able to get about £40 for the old boiler at a scarp merchants...

[SteveW]

Guys,

Re scrap to China:

Maybe Blackgates (and others?) are busy servicing a heavy demand for ME bits from China. Given the size of the population there the fraction of ME types must represent a sizable market. Just consider what Reeves would be charging on postage there.

[steamjohn248]

We always use either Polly or Live Steam Models if at all possible. fast, friendly and efficient service

[Nexuas]

I will not be starting LILLA till after the summer so probably should order all I want now in the hope that it will arrive for when I would like to begin work on it? Also ordering it now may beat any future price rises.

If GM went up 22% in the time it took Blackgate to print and distrubute a new cataloge, think how much it could rise over the next couple of years!!!

[gwrfan]

Nexuas,

You would be well advised to purchase whatever castings you will be needing, even if you don't build your loco for some years. I have recently purchased all the remaining castings I required for my 'Dukedog', from Reeves, as they are the only supplier for this loco. Reeves' castings have more than doubled in cost over the past few years.

I need an outer dome for Dukedog, and Reeves' price for it now is over £60. The same dome (it's the same in every dimention) for 'Pansy' (Reeves) is only £40+, and the same from Blackgates (Pansy) is only £20+. Guess where I shall purchase mine?

Regards from Cornwall

[Nexuas]

My main problem with that being that in the last 6 months I have purchased

Warco BV-20 lathe
Rexon Bench top belt snader
Pillar drill
2 X Tap and die sets
Vernier height gauge
Drawings for RUSSELL
3 1/2" Gauge RUSSELL
Copper for a replacement boiler
And an assortment of BMS, Bronze and Brass bar/rod etc...

The domestic services are going to start becoming hostile!!! She wants a new car to start with, and I keep telling her we can't afford it ;D

[gwrfan]

You need to hide some of your stuff away, and ask her where she is spending all your money, hahaha ;D

[steamjohn248]

Yes well Reeves wanted £124 PER WHEEL for a disc wheel casting, Guess what, we bought 12" dia. EN8 blanks for £18. Not much more to machine and they wont need any steel tyres!

[Nexuas]

gwrfan said:

You need to hide some of your stuff away, and ask her where she is spending all your money, hahaha ;D

Luckly we have seperate bank accounts, so I am pretty much free to spend how I like as long as all the regular bills are paid. I am also very good at saving, however once I see a decent amount of money in my savings account I always go out and buy something expensive, like a 3 1/2" guage model steam train, or an expensive digital camera and lenses...

Still if ordering now saves money in the long run it has to be a good thing