nimbus
Active Member
Posts: 22
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Post by nimbus on Sept 30, 2010 23:50:20 GMT
Hi everyone,
I live in Sydney and belong to the HME 5" gauge club in Galstone.
I am seeking any advice on the design of oil firing systems for 5" and 71/4" Boilers. I am told that oil firing is almost universal in the US and Canada. But I have had no success in locating any info on Google from theses areas.
My own loco is a rather large boilered (8" belpaire) 2-6-2 narrow gage, so I will require a fairly large system.
Any help or advice on where I can get some advice would be appreciated.
Mike
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Post by weldsol on Oct 1, 2010 7:43:23 GMT
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Post by Shawki Shlemon on Oct 1, 2010 10:31:57 GMT
Mike , have a talk to Ross Edmondson at Illawarra Live steam , he has a 59 running on oil , that is a large engine , I am sure he would help .
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Post by ausdan on Oct 2, 2010 1:20:01 GMT
There is large 7.25 loco at our club (tinkerbell) I'm not sure, but I know he runs a coal bed and uses atomized oil sprayed into the fire box.
I will ask some questions when I see him nxt
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nimbus
Active Member
Posts: 22
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Post by nimbus on Oct 2, 2010 2:54:26 GMT
Weldsol,
Thank you for the very helpful link to nelsonlocomotive it has given me some useful leads. I prefer the idea of oil (kero, deilsel or maybe a mixture) as I believe gas is somewhat cumbersome to handel. The reason that I am going in this direction is that I believe that in the future the 'bush fire' scenarios which are becoming only to prevalent here are going to totally preclude the use of coal fired locos.
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nimbus
Active Member
Posts: 22
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Post by nimbus on Oct 2, 2010 3:02:57 GMT
Ausdan,
I would be interested to know more, As I have been considering the use of the sort of materials that are used in open gas fires in the UK to represent glowing coal. My reasoning is that this would allow a more even distribution of heat over the entire firbox.
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steam4ian
Elder Statesman
One good turn deserves another
Posts: 2,069
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Post by steam4ian on Oct 6, 2010 7:39:27 GMT
G'day Mike
The Coal/Oil firing was used successfully by the SAR. As you have said the use of coal may become difficult in future.
You could have the usual firebox and grate and cover the grate with broken barbecue "coals". These "coals" are little ceramic blocks which normally are used under barbeque grids to burn the fat. Spray the oil over and onto them so the glow red/white hot, should stop the fire from going out. Make sure the primary and secondary air does not come through the "coal" bed so it does not cool down.
Regards
Ian
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nimbus
Active Member
Posts: 22
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Post by nimbus on Oct 9, 2010 7:32:11 GMT
Ian,
Your advice about not letting in the air from underneith seems to be somewhat universal when dealing with oil firirng. My idea was to use one of the favoured steam jet type burners and to direct this onto the "coals" and then over the arch and through the tubes.
The one thing that does concern me is the flame going out. A Canadian friend who visits our club yearly for the summer months was saying that one inexperienced driver took a bit to long to relight the fire. The resulting 'small' explosion projected his smoke box door some 40M down the track, which is awfully inconvenient when your pulling passengers!!
I am considering some form of spark plug arrangement that produces a spark every 30secs driven from a coil and timer. The use of a pilot flame is I believe to problematical.
Mike
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steam4ian
Elder Statesman
One good turn deserves another
Posts: 2,069
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Post by steam4ian on Oct 10, 2010 3:04:43 GMT
G'day Mike
Get yourself on the Homeshop Machinist site, it is Yankee and they are well into oil firing, lots of comments (I hesitate to say good advice).
You comment about the smokebox door reminds me of a sitauation at the PRR. We had a loco which was oil fired. The boiler inspector was checking it over and asked the fireman how he relit the oil. Comment, "we just spray it onto the arch bricks and away it goes". That was the end of oil firing, the loco is still waiting on its conversion back to coal. Pity as I am sure that I with a couple of others could have come up with a simple flame monitoring interlock system. We have to stop running steam from October through to March due to the fire danger. Anyway it gets to hot and dry to be pleasant on most days.
Burning oil is handy, PRR were using recycled sump oil whilst the Grand Canyon Railway were/are burning recycled cooking oil from their kitchens. The smoke from the latter smells a bit strange, like a fish and chip shop, no good if you are hungry!
Regards
Ian
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nimbus
Active Member
Posts: 22
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Post by nimbus on Oct 10, 2010 6:23:38 GMT
Ian
Your comment about oil firing is not clear to me. Are you saying that the boiler inspector refused to issue a certificate, which he has no rite to do, as his remit is the certifuication of a boiler according to the AALS boiler code. It would be up the the appointed safety officer to rule on the opperational aspect of how the boiler is relit under fire-out situations.
My intension is to use Kero/Deisel in a 50:50 mix
Thanks for the Homeshop link I will see what they do.
In fact, what the guy was advocating I would think would be the quickest way of refiring in order to prevent a blowout. Refiring is not as easy as it looks I think.
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Post by ausdan on Oct 10, 2010 7:28:59 GMT
Spoke with the owner yesterday...It was coal fired for about 5yrs, before they started to try oil burning.
Sump oil was less effective, needed pre heating and had issues with the atomizer concept. They burn diesel now and get quite alot of black smoke when applied.
Main issue is trying to have an even spread (fan shape) to cover all parts of firebox.
Also troubles with it basically going straight onto the tubes and scorching the front end. ideally they want to have it spraying from the back towards the door
the atomiser was copper tube squashed at the end, with 4 x 1mm holes drilled in the end top /bottom and sides
Not a well detailed explanation but none the less some more info
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