Brakes etc

[Deeja]

Guys,

What are you using for brakes (both locomotive brakes and train brakes) for non-steam locos?

The steamers can use an ejector and easily get vacuum on demand with little fuss, compressed air is a bit harder, but what about the non-steamers?

Both air and vacuum have their advantages and disadvantages. And mechanical type only ever seems to be on the loco or the driver's truck.

Any thoughts on the matter?

How do you generate compressed air?
How do you generate vacuum?
What pressures do you use?
etc

Dynamic or regenerative braking will only slow a moving train, not stop it, or hold on a hill, and not an option on non-electric drive.

Appreciate your inputs.

Deeja

[isc]

Non Loco builder/ driver, but how about a cheap 12V compressor, you could make an air tank from tube/a number of tubes, and the compressor on a pressure switch. I have not taken much notice, but I think the brakes are operated via a diaphram. Those little compressors generate quite a pressure, the one I have is red lined at 200psi, and 10 minutes on load with a 30 min cooling time, i'm sure this could be managed better. isc

[fostergp6nhp]

For vacuum i have seen someware an artical showing the conversion of one of these cheapie compressors into an exhauster. IIRC it was mainly done by modifying the inlet to a pipe fitting and presumably the outlet was vented.

[isc]

That would work, you could also use the compressor from a fridg, strip it down and drive it from an axle, without the casing, and the motor the pump is quite small, and far more robust than the 12v tire inflator. I'v got one here and I'v modified it so that it has a sump to contain a little oil, normally the pump and motor run in a oil bath, without the oil the motor over heats after a short time. To give an idea of the consruction, my one has a bore of 25mm, stroke 20mm, and the big end bearing is 25mm dia X 25mm wide, it has a 25mm drive shaft. isc

[ettingtonliam]

Problem with driving it from an axle is how do you build up brake pressure before moving off?
Driven from the engine would work for an I/C job, or presumably by a motor separate to the traction motor for an electric.

Richard

[weldsol]

Hi Iv'e just been sorting this out for our club diesels and have found the following -
The cheapo tyre inflator can pull up to 30 amps which was a problem for us
So I found a company that supplies proper vac pumps either single @ 12 ltrs / min or a twin version @ 20 ltrs / min.
The single pump pulls 1.5 amps and the twin 2.5 amps.
For the tanks I have used the throw away MIG gas bottles with bosses welded to the ends tapped 1/4 BSP
You will also need a vac switch ( with adjustable differental ) these are not cheap for a good one I have also switched this via a relay ( to save the switch contacts) also a one way valve then the control valve

Vac Pumps UK
Unit 2, Latchmore Industrial Park,
Lowfields Road, Leeds LS12 6DN

The sales guy I dealt with is Richard on 07891361342

XV73VEN1.000 Vacuum Switch 1/8" BSP Connection £33.99 each + p&p available from -

M & M International (UK) Ltd

Phone:01234|855888
Email: [e-mail]

[fostergp6nhp]

Another idea for IC power is a belt driven vac pump as fitted to various Pug and Shitroen diesel cars driven from the engine crankshaft. No governors or control gear needed as IIRC they limit at about 15" hg and being fully self contained need no maintenance apart from the oil level when fitting and possibly a check every 12mths.

[electrosteam]

In Australia, several motor vehicles were produced with a 12 Vdc electric vacuum pump to operate the power windows.
Older large Ford sedans spring to mind.
Some members in our club have searched the local scrap dealers in Sydney to acquire as many as possible.

John.

[pault]

Hi
Or rather than modifying fridge/ car exhausters you could just get a unit off the shelf that is made for the job. Have a look at www.pnp-railways.co.uk/vacuum-pump.html
I know a couple of people who use the PNP system and are very happy with it.
Regards
Paul

[weldsol]

Apr 11, 2011 17:57:42 GMT pault said:

Hi
Or rather than modifying fridge/ car exhausters you could just get a unit off the shelf that is made for the job. Have a look at www.pnp-railways.co.uk/vacuum-pump.html
I know a couple of people who use the PNP system and are very happy with it.
Regards
Paul

Hi Paul I did look at the PNP pumps but at £330 each were a bit high, the company I found were at least 2/3rds cheaper and we got an even better deal when we bought ten off.

Paul

[NickM]

Hi Weldsol

Are those vac pumps 12v? And did you mean 2/3rds the price (i.e. £220) or 2/3rds cheaper (i.e. £110)?

if they're 12v and £110 they are very good value!

Nick

[weldsol]

Apr 11, 2011 22:00:32 GMT NickM said:

Hi Weldsol

Are those vac pumps 12v? And did you mean 2/3rds the price (i.e. £220) or 2/3rds cheaper (i.e. £110)?

if they're 12v and £110 they are very good value!

Nick

Yes 12v
They were less than £110 (remember we took ten off) this was back in January this year here is a link to their site the one we took was ZA20CC
www.vacuumpumpsuk.com/PD%20products.html
You can download a tech, sheet

Paul

[angleseyrailway]

I have two offerings for creating vacuum for non steam loco's

MG Rover and Peugeot (205 diesel) have a very good belt driven vacuum pump. I have 4 new and boxed for sale at £80 each. Usually £225 rrp or around £110 on ebay.

The other alternative is a really good quality 12v pump; found mine on ebay. Made by Hella. I have one on my car but the one l purchased was for a Fiat (Lancia) model: pumpe UP28, Part no.50513244019261-00. A really smart robust unit.

Both units much cheaper than any other source l have found.

Hope this is of some use.

Daniel

[angleseyrailway]

You may also be interested in this vacuum reservoir from AUDI

logo.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-100-A4-A6-A8-GENUINE-NEW-VACUUM-RESEVOIR-/300406600001?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item45f1a0f141#ht_801wt_1037

Daniel