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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 13:36:29 GMT
You make it look so easy Julian... looks very nice...  Pete |
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pault
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Post by pault on Mar 8, 2014 17:29:56 GMT
As a silly question has anyone tried making a ring the relevant size with a rad on the inside dia and pressing out a tube plate rather than beating it??
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 19:01:32 GMT
Here's my modest set-up.......What you can't see is the Oxy-Acetylene set behind me...This is normally stored in another place and under cover........The firebricks were a job-lot that came on the market locally back in the 1980's so 3 of us bought the lot and made 3 of these..There is also a box of broken brick to use as filling.....Nowadays I only do boiler repairs and other similar smaller items involving silver soldering, brazing or gas welding...  ----------- |
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Post by Jim Scott on Mar 8, 2014 20:40:42 GMT
As a silly question has anyone tried making a ring the relevant size with a rad on the inside dia and pressing out a tube plate rather than beating it?? Not by pressing, but a club member recently brought along a 13 SWG copper tubeplate he made by metal spinning on a Colchester Student lathe. The metal(?) former was turned in situ and the annealed blank was held in place by a pressure plate using a rotating centre in the tailstock. The spinning was carried out using a spoon type hand held tool in conjunction with a toolpost mounted rest. He said it was pretty straightforward operation, everyone who saw it was impressed... Jim S |
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pault
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Post by pault on Mar 8, 2014 21:18:16 GMT
Hi Jim
I didn’t think of spinning the only down side is that it only works for round plates, but the advantage is you only need the former. Sorry for going off at a tangent Julian
Regards
Paul
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jma1009
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 8, 2014 22:57:47 GMT
hi paul,
no problem! i agree hot pressing using dies would be one way of making flanged plates. however it doesnt take me long to belt them out the LBSC method. it usually take me longer to file flat and even the edges of the flanged plates than make the the flanges if that makes sense. in the case of the smokebox tubeplate i bunged it in the lathe to get the edges of the flanges true. i should perhaps add i find it very enjoyable and satisfying flanging plates and enjoy working with copper. one of the few occasions in model engineering where one can belt things and achieve something rather than be destructive!
i made the inner firebox wrapper today and bent same to fit the inner firebox flanged plates already made then spent a lot of time checking all the fits and measuring same before i silver solder up most of the inner firebox. also made a start on the firebox crownstays which i will probably silver solder on at the same time if all goes ok tomorrow. though weather forecast tomorrow is good so might have to do some gardening and mow the lawn, plus of course watch Wales thrash England in the rugby at twickenham at 3pm!
cheers,
julian
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Post by RGR 60130 on Mar 9, 2014 17:07:18 GMT
though weather forecast tomorrow is good so might have to do some gardening and mow the lawn, plus of course watch Wales thrash England in the rugby at twickenham at 3pm! cheers, julian England 29 Wales 18 nuff said  Sorry Julian ! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 17:45:38 GMT
Heh heh!
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jma1009
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 9, 2014 20:05:26 GMT
yes, not the best result in the rugby.
also didnt get round to silver soldering up the inner firebox tubeplate to the inner wrapper as still faffing around getting the crownstay girders a nice fit. i want to silver solder them to the inner firebox at the same time. they are quite awkward things to get right with a slightly curved inner firebox top etc and i can see why lots of clubs now prefer rod stays instead of girder stays. i could easily fit rod stays as my inner wrapper is 2.5mm instead of the original design's 1/16" which i wasnt happy with as thought it too thin.
cheers,
julian
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Post by 3405jimmy on Mar 10, 2014 19:43:24 GMT
though weather forecast tomorrow is good so might have to do some gardening and mow the lawn, plus of course watch Wales thrash England in the rugby at twickenham at 3pm! cheers, julian England 29 Wales 18 nuff said Sorry Julian ! Last year after winding up some of my welsh colleagues I was on the way to Canada when the game was being played. I arrived turned on my phone to be greeted by the text Welcome to Canada by the grand slam champions Wales. This year I was able to retort Guess I am not in Canada then? Life's a long time Jim |
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jma1009
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 10, 2014 22:31:32 GMT
  i silver soldered up the firebox tubeplate to the wrapper this evening. i did one half in silverflo 24 but the tubeplate was getting a bit hot for my liking (silverflo 24 really does require the copper VERY hot, and not ideal as i found for something like a tubeplate), then did the remainder in silverflo 55. i decided to do one joint at a time rather than previous talk about doing the crownstays at the same time plus tubes.no point in making things too tricky or difficult. the firebox inner doorplate will get left off so i can silver solder the firebox stays with my propane. this is really the only way to do them with propane. i spent quite a bit of time getting the joints closed up. only used half a stick of each silver solder so this joint cost £5. i covered the rivets with silver solder (only 2 rivets required thankfully way down at the bottom of the firebox). as both these rivets are below the foundation ring they didnt need silver soldering, but old habits die hard! good practice as the last boiler i made was 3 years ago and you forget how to do things sometimes! crownstays are all made now and wil be the next job to the top of the inner firebox. then the tubes fitted. the silverflo 55 took 5 mins start to finish. unlike easyflo it has a slight yellowish tinge in patches. silverflo 55 melts at 630 degrees C. cheers, julian |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 22:39:40 GMT
very impressive Julian... those joints look superb...
Pete
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Post by Jim on Mar 10, 2014 23:05:01 GMT
Nice to see the work of someone who is a master at it. I agree with Pete, well done Julian.
Jim
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jma1009
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 10, 2014 23:30:33 GMT
Jim and Pete, you are far too kind - it was nearly a disaster with a potentially burnt tubeplate using the silverflo 24! first boiler ive ever used silverflo 24 on. i suppose half the problem with boiler work is when to say 'stop' when you realise the flux is exhausted and things arent going ok, and also knowing how to clean the joints that have been previously fluxed and assembled for another 'go'.
i can certainly recommend sodium hydroxide for removing hard flux deposits - it's recommended for same on the johnson matthey website. wilko's drain cleaner is sodioum hydroxide. mix with boiling water and leave the copper in it for 35 minutes or so.
i did all the previous joints in silverflo 24 no problem, but i wouldnt advise using same if you are inexperienced. best to use silverflo 55. this rather poses a problem re step silver soldering of miniature boilers if a tubeplate cant easily be done with silverflo 24. so far as im aware, only silverflo 24 and silverflo 55 are recommended by johnson matthey now for miniature loco boiler work. in the past we had quite a range of intermediate melting point silver solders, but none of these like B6 and C4 are no longer available.
cheers,
julian
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pault
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Post by pault on Mar 10, 2014 23:49:00 GMT
Very nice work Julian
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2014 0:42:07 GMT
I agree, well done !!!------- Those are text-book photos clearly indicating good heat distribution and no localised overheating.... I imagine that the solder flowed like water along those joints ??
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jma1009
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 11, 2014 0:52:34 GMT
hi alan and paul, again you are both too kind.
alan, silverflo 24 can be a bit tricky, and is best added well away from the flame ideally the flame on the otherside of the joint where being applied. silverflo 55 is more forgiving and 'whizzes' and 'flashes' round by comparison same as you would expect of easyflo 2 or easyflo. my younger brother was in the RN for 26 years ending up as CPO down below in the engine rooms, and regularly used to provide me with RN non-cadmium silver solder equivalent to easyflo 2 (im guessing identical to silverflo 55) so ive been used to using non cadmium stuff on boilers for very many years. RN banned cadmium stuff years ago.
cheers,
julian
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Post by ejparrott on Mar 11, 2014 7:26:42 GMT
I'm thinking of putting the firebox tube-plate to the wrapper on Lion with high temp stuff, and then drilling the tube holes after...not made my mind up yet.
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Post by Roger on Mar 11, 2014 8:15:51 GMT
That looks really neat Julian. Are the two rivets on the throat plate your addition to make assembly easier?
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jma1009
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 11, 2014 9:27:27 GMT
hi roger,
most descriptions of copper silver soldered boiler making refer to the use of some rivets to hold the bits together whilst silver soldering. some descriptions in ME go way over board in specifying lots of rivets IMHO. as they all need running over with silver solder and can be easily missed they are a bit of a pain, plus if you close them up too much they prevent proper penetration of silver solder through the joint. so i try and use as few as possible. with a bit of thought and care and planning set ups most can be avoided. so for example if you make a small step in the ends of the throatplate flanges and backhead flanges the foundation ring sides can be made to fit and stops them slipping down and out of position.
one thing that would be quite useful is a method of counterinking the holes for the firebox stays in the inside of same. there must be an easy way of doing this but i havent discovered it yet! anyone any ideas please? usually i rotate a sharp rose bit by hand.
cheers,
julian
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