BOXHILL by Martin Evans

[Deleted]

wow that's a very detailed list of tools you have there George.. seeing this made me wonder if such a list exists for my own build... Google hasn't helped... if possible could you please advise where I could look, I'd love to have a full compliment of tools included in 4472's build..

cheers

Pete

[GeorgeRay]

Pete
That list of tools for locomotives of 1873 comes from a biography of Stroudley by H J Campbell Cornwall. Remember that in the nineteenth century locomotives crews on the Brighton were expected to service their locos, so would have a fairly extensive tool kit. By the time Scotsman came along servicing was the responsibility of the shed so the tool kit would probably be much less. I don't know where you would find a list for LNER locks. At a minimum they would carry the firing tools shovel, dart and pricker and clinker shovel, coal pick, and oil bottles. There would also be spanners for the on the road repairs. The NRM may have some details or there may be someone on this list who has studied the LNER. Sorry that I can't be of more use.
George

[jma1009]

hi GeorgeRay,

the Stroudley locos all had 'toolboxes' to the rear of the bunker or tender to contain the batteries for the Stroudley and Stephen Rushbridge patented electrical passenger alarm. see H.J.Cambell Cornwall 'William Stroudley Craftsman of Steam' David and Charles 1968, and in fact the patent and Stroudley's explanation of same is also on the net somewhere. in addition to the above, there was quite a lot of room originally in the front cab boxes boxes both of which have hinged lids, and the fireman's side has a lock on it.

the batteries were definitely fitted in the rear toolbox. that was definitely originally the function of the rear toolbox.

the IW locos with their extended bunkers never had additional toolboxes fitted to contain the list you refer to, though in ex IW days some had a small toolbox fitted to top of the left hand tank and it would nowhere contain all the items on your list! both the preserved NEWPORT and FRESHWATER have the extended bunker with no additional toolbox. i have a pic of FENCHURCH's rear toolbox contents somewhere and these days it contains nothing more than a few oil cans!

why on earth would you need a 5' pinch bar on a loco? a tube cleaning brush for a terrier would need to be at least 8' long and wouldnt fit in a 5' wide 'toolbox'!

cheers,
julian

[jma1009]

hi GeorgeRay,
i have found that some of H.J. Campbell Cornwall's info must be treated with a degree of suspicion. he doesnt seem to have had much of a clue on some things. some of his info is taken direct from papers Stroudley presented to the engineering press at the time but somewhat out of context - these days you can find the original papers on the net via the USA! my own info re the Stephen Rushbridge/Stroudley electrical communication device comes from the 'blurb' printed on the description of BOXHILL when at Clapham, backed up by the original Stroudley paper, and the references in Campbell Cornwall. quite large accumulators were required as im sure you can imagine in the 1870's!
most of the preserved terriers still have the wooden plate to which the brass bell for the communication system was attached on the rear of the left hand side sheet, and BOXHILL has an original bell fitted on same these days, though it was missing in my pics of the loco when at Clapham.
cheers,
julian

[GeorgeRay]

Hi Julian
I believe the C Class goods and the A class Terriers predate the Stroudley & Rusbridge system, which wasn't patented until 1875. In any case they would have been exempt from the requirement to fit a communication system which was only required on passenger trains travelling more than 20 miles without a stop. Since the average between station distance on the South London line for which the A class was designed was less than a mile I am pretty sure the Directors of the LBSC would not have approved unnecessary expenditure. It may have been used before then I agree but since it was intended for passenger trains in those days the company wouldn't have wasted money in fitting it to a goods loco.
If they were intended for batteries for the S&R system why would Dugald Drummond have copied them for his copy of the D tanks for the NBR. On the tank locomotive (Needlefield) that Stroudley rebuilt for the Highland Railway he added a toolbox that looks very similar to that for his LBSC designs which strengthens my belief that they were originally intended as tool boxes. Which is why they appear on locomotives on other railways. They may have been used for carrying batteries at some subsequent time but I don't believe that was their original reason. The components for the S&R system for the coach fleet apparently included batteries for fitting in the guards van.
The reason that the IOW locos had extended bunkers was due to the need to enhance their coal capacity as originally sent over they had toolboxes fitted. By early in the 20th century drivers were no longer carrying out their own maintenance it had become a running shed staff problem so the need for individual sets of tools would have been much reduced.
You can move a locomotive with a 5 ft pinch bar, I've helped moved the Adams radial up through the old shed at Sheffield Park using two such bars. If a driver needed to move his loco on a shed day when it was not in steam it would easily be possible with the bar.
However I have been unable to find a copy of the original patent to determine the disposition of all the batteries, if they were carried in the tool box then perhaps Stroudley had great foresight in expecting the communication system to be fitted to all the Brighton Locos regardless of their duties.
George

[jma1009]

hi George,

i find it extremely annoying that Campbell Cornwall doesnt give references and notes in his book - and have found that he copied large chunks of Stroudley's papers to the engineering press of the day without quoting same or referencing the sources. i have his paper on crank axles and wheel construction and his paper on the GLADSTONE class plus the drawings, plus the 1874 GA of the Terriers (which is also reproduced albeit rather small in Handal Kardas' book).

anyway, i have nearly finished STEPNEY's cab - the rear half is now finished and is now coated with primer and only the handrails offsets and handrails required to finish.

cheers,
julian

[jma1009]

no progress to report on STEPNEY the last 2 weeks other than that the copper boiler material and some silverflo 24 has arrived today. i will use the silverflo 24 for the first few joints. i ordered the copper tube from M-machine metals in darlington - excellent service, very reasonable price, and very quick delivery. i will make a start on the boiler shortly. it is much smaller than other boilers ive made so shouldnt pose any problems (touch wood!)

cheers,
julian

[Deleted]

I look forward to following this stage Julian... like most of live steaming it's all like a dark art to me but if I had to choose the darkest art it would be making the boiler...I'll be following this section with added interest.

Pete

[jma1009]

hi pete,

it isnt really a dark art - all that is required is a bit of proficiency with silver solder and in my case my sievert torch and propane - you have already shown that you are more than proficient with silver solder!

dont expect too many pics of me in the process of silver soldering joints - i have enough to think about when silver soldering boiler joints plus my hands full without worrying about taking pics! though i will try!

first job having inspected the excellent 3 3/4" dia 13 swg copper tube that arrived from M-machine metals yesterday is to mark out carefully the tube for cutting - part of the barrel forms the outer firebox wrapper - which needs cutting to half diameter then splitting lengthways. ive made a card template of my firebox plan to check where and how it fits into the chassis to check clearances with the frame stretcher behind the driving axle and the rear axleboxes and horns. my terrier boiler is a bit different as it will have a full depth firebox as per prototype without a slope over the rear axle. by making the extension pice to the outer wrapper longer i can do away with the extension piece on one side of the outer wrapper which has a number of advantages as the extension piece is further up and away from the foundation ring (always a tricky area)and one less joint to do. the strap for the extension piece will also be outside the wrapper so the integrity of its joint and penetration of the silver solder can easily be inspected, and wont interfere with the water space. there is plenty of room between the frames as they are 4 1/4" wide between the frames and the boiler is only 3 3/4" wide. why martin evans didnt do this ive no idea! ie just one extension piece with the strap on the outside. such a simple improvement to make.

anyway some careful marking out required before cutting the tube and annealing the firebox end to flatten the sides into an inverted 'U' shape.

cheers,
julian

[jma1009]

a productive evening here - have just finished bashing the outer firebox wrapper after cutting same so a few pics - but not with torch lit im afraid. on top of the brazing hearth made up of thermalite blocks on my bench should be another block on top i used when annealing the copper tube. the pic should be 90 degrees to the left!

[jma1009]

another of the split tube for the firebox outer wrapper

[jma1009]

a few more of the completed cab - the first pic shows my card plan of the firebox and partly painted cab roof with joining strip added on top half way on one side, and the second pic shows the half round beading underneath the top of the bunker which isnt on the BOXHILL drawings and isnt often repeated in miniature.

cheers,
julian

[Deleted]

wow julian.. didn't take you long to get into the boiler... very interesting and great work..

Pete

[jma1009]

hi pete,

thank you for your kind comments.

i enjoy boiler making! there is something strangely satisfying about making things in copper! my motto is plenty of heat, plenty of the right type of firebricks, plenty of the right type of flux, keep everything scrupulously clean when doing the joints, and dont worry about the cost of silver solder! i need a few more materials - as long as they arrive on time it shouldnt take longer than 6 weeks of spare time including flanging all the plates. that's considerably less than it took to make the cab! ive got all the silver solder and 3/32" plate, and foundation ring material, bronze for all the dome bush and other bushes, and firehole ring material. just the 3mm plate on order for the backhead and smokebox tubeplate, and the fluetubes.

i bought £125 of silver solder from cupalloys a few years ago just before the cadmium stuff became unavailable (equivalent of easyflo 2), plus have a stock of same. i like to do the dome bush, throatplate, and a few other joints with other higher melting point stuff first ie silverflo 24, and get on very well with the silverflo 55 (non-cadmium silver solder a bit higher melting point than ordinary easyflo) which i use for boiler work as the equivalent of easyflo. i use easyflo 2 for the tubes and foundation ring and backhead. ive always used Thessco F flux for boiler work as recommended to me by alec farmer of Reeves fame many years ago. though my first boiler was done throughout in easyflo 2 and the first few joints done with a 1 gallon paraffin blowlamp before i acquired my seivert torch.

anyway as summer is over the neighbours wont complain about me bashing copper over the formers!

ive never driven a miniature terrier, so will be quite fun to see how my own terrier boiler performs in due course.

cheers,
julian

[GeorgeRay]

Hi Julian
If it goes anything like mine you're in for a big surprise for such a small loco. However it seems to me that when the superheater eventually gets working it's even better. It takes 2 laps of the Andover track for it to be obvious and I can then open the bypass to prevent the water level climbing up the gauge glass. I have to shut it every so often to prevent the safety valve roaring its head off. Mine is I believe a bog standard boiler and superheater ie non radiant. I am sure that you will enjoy driving and firing your Boxhill as much as I do Fenchurch.
George Ray

[ejparrott]

Take me at least 6 weeks just to make the formers........

Look good, I think its the extra little details that make the difference, so often missing on published designs. I really should start a thread for my Manning Wardle now that I'm finally starting to make some real progress....

[jma1009]

hi george,
many thanks for your reply! very reassuring! i dont suppose your FENCHURCH was one i saw at the southampton track on the steaming bays many moons ago for a southern fed southern loco rally? i was running an H2 Brighton Atlantic.

hi ed, well i suppose in 5"g formers dont require an awful lot of time to make especially if of wood and only for one or two flanged plates. i dont mind a bit of woodwork.

here's the former i made for the double flanged throatplate out of plywood plus the nearly finished throatplate. i dont think the former will stand anymore use so will be thrown on the stove in the lounge in due course. the sides were done on a different former made out of mahogany that will also serve for the backhead. the flange for the barrel was done in the former in the attached pic - with an insert of plywood between the side flanges, and the main plywood former having sides/keeps to locate everything and belted a few times on the keeps to keep the tops of the barrel flange to shape, and the cut out on the main former is to the barrel diameter plus 3/32". ive never made formers out of steel, and the mahogany formers ive used/will use are left over from a previous bigger boiler so have cut down ok.

i quite like double flanged throatplates as there is far more area of contact for the silver solder, plus when finished the bottom half of the barrel abutting same can be filed away aiding water circulation at this vital point. well worth the extra effort i think, and didnt take too long this eve. the martin evans design of butt joint between throatplate and barrel ignores the gap at the top of the throatplate and barrel cut out caused by the radius on the throatplate. a double flanged job avoids this - but some careful fitting and joggling required over the next few days.

cheers,
julian

[GeorgeRay]

Julian
I've not been to the Soton track with Fenchurch. I did attend a Southern Rally at Leatherhead several years ago. The H2 there came to grief at one stage with I think something failing on the inside motion. At that stage Fenchurch was in a brass finish but is now resplendent in an as built condition finish.
Rgds
George

[jma1009]

hi George - wasnt me at Leatherhead!

first joint done on the boiler today - the single (on mine) extension piece and strap on the outer firebox wrapper on the righthand side. used silverflo 24 as used by baggo (john baguley)on his HELEN LONGISH boiler, and also found it a pig with propane - partly due to me using an unusual set up to avoid any rivets for the strap and heat throw back making it extremely uncomfortable to add the solder. so not very neat, but i succeeded in the end. i havent used silverflo 24 before. i was quite surprised as ive done quite a bit of sifbronze brazing with propane before. i will use a different technique akin to how i use sifbronze when i do the throatplate with silverflo 24. strangely enough the silverflo 24 ran very well without the expected fillet of higher melting point stuff.

incidentally i can recommend baggo's series on his HELEN LONGISH boiler, as most of the books are now very out of date regarding techniques and materials. john obviously did a lot of research.

www.modeng.johnbaguley.info/locos/25inch/Helen%20Longish/helen8.htm

i used the silverflo 24 not because of cost as ive plenty of silverflo 55, easyflo, and easyflo 2 in stock, but to avoid the extra rivets that are required with doing a boiler say all in the lower melting point stuff. each side of each rivet head must have a ring of silver solder around it and it is very easy to miss the odd one or two in the panic and heat of silver soldering. also by their very nature rivets have to be closed up which prevents a space for the silver solder to run through. so generous countersinks required and try not to close the rivets up too much. the last boiler i made (quite a bit bigger than STEPNEY's) had only 6 rivets in it - on the inner firebox wrapper fixing the tops of the flanged plates and girder stays.

ive made a start on fitting the double flanged throatplate to the barrel. the time spent in getting a decent fit all round is well worth it but it takes a lot of time and patience with no separate outer wrapper!

cheers,
julian

[jma1009]

fitted the throatplate today. the sunshine helped! not silver soldered yet. but tried the boiler shell plus throatplate in the frames and all looks ok thankfully, and the weighshaft of my modified valvegear will just clear the boiler underside when in reverse, though will need to cut away the cleading.

cheers,
julian