Lathes..Which One??

[roconnor]

Hi All,
As mentioned in previous postings,I'm new to Model Engineering.
I've decided with the help of Doug Hewson to build a Y4 Tank Engine in 5" gauge.
Having no experience whatsover,I wonder whether anyone can advise me on the type of lathe I should buy.
Money is tight.....so is the space in my garage.
I've been looking at Clarke Lathes from Machine Mart.
Any advice would be very welcome.
Many Thanks,
roconnor UK

[alanstepney]

One of the best lathes for model engineering work is the Myford 7 series.
There has probably been more models made on them than on any other type of lathe.

True, they do have limitations, but there are so many accesories one can buy or make that adds to their versatility, plus they keep going and maintain their accuracy for many years.

[havoc]

When I started out, I asked the same at the club, and the general response was that it didn't matter much. It was more important to get to know your lathe to obtain results. And even a cheap one will stand up to the use of a model engineer. A bit larger than you think you will ever use is a safe bet.

[swgwm02]

I agree with what Alan says,the ml7 is one the best lathes for our hobby.I have had one for over twenty years from new.
If I had to start from scratch and funds were limited I would purchase a second hand one,as an added bonus a load of accessories and tooling might be thrown in.
Try your local model engineering club they may be able to put you in touch with someone selling second hand model engineering . Good luck!

[ron]

Have a look at Warco lathes, while I would agree that they aren't as good as a Myford and probably won't last as long, they are a fraction of the price and come with quite a few accessories included and I think the longevity issue isn't all that important for DIY use.
I looked at S/H Myfords when I was looking for a lathe a couple of years ago, the cheap ones were worn and the good ones were expensive, still several times the price of a Warco.
I would also agree with Havoc buy the biggest you can fit in and afford.
Ron

[roconnor]

ron said:

Have a look at Warco lathes, while I would agree that they aren't as good as a Myford and probably won't last as long, they are a fraction of the price and come with quite a few accessories included and I think the longevity issue isn't all that important for DIY use.
I looked at S/H Myfords when I was looking for a lathe a couple of years ago, the cheap ones were worn and the good ones were expensive, still several times the price of a Warco.
I would also agree with Havoc buy the biggest you can fit in and afford.
Ron

From one Ron To another thanks for this I'll have a look at Warco.
Ron

[Tel]

The biggest and best you can afford.

Don't get me wrong, my primary lathe is a Myford, and will remain so, but there is a lot to be said for getting something a bit bigger and less expensive when you are at the 'beginner' stage. Time enough to graduate to a Myford when you have picked up a bit of expertise, so that you will be able to shoehorn in those bigger jobs that, on the face of it, won't fit.

Perhaps a well used industrial machine - these seem to be a bit of a drug on the market at the moment.

[havoc]

A SH worn Myford costs about 2500 euro (excl vat) over here. With worn I mean one that has been in a production shop for years and has been heavily used without much maintenance and then stored outside onder a canvas for 10 years.

[chameleonrob]

have a look at these places, never got anything from them so don't know what they're like.

www.gandmtools.co.uk/
www.lathes.co.uk/
www.tradesalesdirect.co.uk/
www.homeandworkshop.co.uk/

you'll probably get more machine for your money with a second hand machine but it is a bit more of a gamble than buying new. if you do go second hand read about that model on lathes.co.uk, there's also guides and advice on there.

rob

[Phil Sutton]

I bought a Warco mini,and I think it will do everything I'll ever ask of it,and you can still buy it at MidEx at the price I paid for it last year.

Phil

[chris vine]

Hi Roconnor,

A couple of thoughts:

If you go to buy a second hand lathe, take someone with you who knows about them. Some things may be broken which could make the lathe cheaper but they may not be serious. As an example, my first Myford 7 had the fibre gears on the screw cutting reverse smashed. They are only fibre and cost a few pounds to replace but the lathe was un worn and un damaged other than that.

Speed range. You want to have a good range of speeds, from nice and slow, perhaps 60rpm, to good and fast, perhaps 2000 rpm. For large items like cast iron wheels you will need the slow speed and for little items it helps to have a high top speed.

A lot of people will tell you that a gear head machine is better than belt drive. This may be true in industry and more power can be transmitted but the belt driven lathe has two big advantages. 1. if you have a dig in and the tool jams, the belts can slip and save damage. 2. Belts run a LOT quieter, especially at high speeds. In a factory this does not matter and anyway everyone else is making a din but at home and for doing good work the silence is a real boon. 3. Belts are very easy to maintain. If a gear gets damaged it will be much more tricky.

Have fun
Chris.

[chris vine]

PS I can't count

[ilvaporista]

Like Havoc I am not based in the UK, local machine tool dealers here charge a fortune for machines.

My budget is very limited so I have to search. I find the UK very reasonable for machines. (Belgium is not far across the channel so it may be worth to buy something form the UK and transport it to you. Or ask nicely if anyone is going to Sinsheim and could drop off on the way!!)

I would agree to get a machine just a bigger bigger than you think you need, it makes jobs that much easier.

Warco are a reputable company and their machines stand up well to 'our' level of usage.

I do not think that it matters so much the make of machine, what is more important is the desire to use it. Accessories can be found or made to fit and that in itself will teach you a lot about lathework.

It is nice to have powered cross feed, screw cutting gearboxes, geared heads etc but not essential. If your budget does not allow it don't worry about it.

Don't turn your nose up at a lathe because of it's age or make. What is important is the condition. Obvious signs are damage to bed and slideways, backlash, signs of maltreatment etc.

Keep an eye on the local papers, ebay, ME site etc and don't rush to buy the first one you see. Have a good look around.

[the_viffer]

roconnor said:

Hi All,
As mentioned in previous postings,I'm new to Model Engineering.
I've decided with the help of Doug Hewson to build a Y4 Tank Engine in 5" gauge.
Having no experience whatsover,I wonder whether anyone can advise me on the type of lathe I should buy.
Money is tight.....so is the space in my garage.
I've been looking at Clarke Lathes from Machine Mart.
Any advice would be very welcome.
Many Thanks,
roconnor UK

Well if you are talking to Doug you might remind him that 3 years ago he said he'd build a Y4 boiler for me to be ready by the end of 2004 and it has not arrived yet.

I've a Y4 that needs a boiler but not a lot else. I'm sufficiently fed up with waiting that I'll probably be selling it soon. If you want to get a nice little project which would break you into model engineering nice and gently and fairly rapidly get you a running loco...

I have a ML7 which is great. I also have a Clarke Mini Lathe and I prefer to use it for small jobs. Whether the Clarke would be comfy turning up wheels and cylinders I don't know but you'd be able to get through many jobs with it. It is usually posisble to find someone who'll let you have use of a bigger lathe.

[greasemonkey]

It's worth joining your local club and having a chat. I picked my Colchester up for under £200 fully tooled.
Talking of Doug did I hear that he has published an appology about the silver solder? I didnt know that Doug was an accredited boiler maker now and capable of putting that little CE mark on his kit.
Andy

[the_viffer]

greasemonkey said:

I didnt know that Doug was an accredited boiler maker now and capable of putting that little CE mark on his kit.
Andy

My reading of the Pressure Systems Safety Regulations 2000 www.cdmes.co.uk/pssr.htm is that no formal accrediation is required. If made in the course of business it needs marking and the materials need to be traceable but I'm not aware of any need for formal accrediation.

Whether he has it or not, whether he makes his own boilers or not I don't know but his website clearly has boilers for sale see for example www.the-hewsons.demon.co.uk/class4.htm

[greasemonkey]

HI T_V
As you sayy under the pressure vessel regualtions noi formal accreditation is reqired except being able to prove and trace material. The ability to be able to CE mark the boiler though as I understand it requires inspection by an 'accepted body' who charge thousands for their services. It is this little mark that allows a pro boiler maker the ability to sell his products.
As you say though just because he lists them on his site doesnt mean he makes them.

Andy

[wayne]

When considering which lathe to buy I would consider how long you intend to keep it, my ml 7 is in exes of 50 years old and it only needed a bed regrind this year, plus parts are still available and 90 percent of the accessories available from myford. At the same time as having the bed reground I bought a recon gearbox from myford complete with lead screw and lead screw handle for £475 including vat, (check ebay prices) and the gearbox internally was as new.

Secondly How much would a 50 year old warco be worth, and will you be able to still get parts. If as Tell suggests, you later trade up to a bigger lathe a myford will hold its value or even increase. I paid £250 for my ml7 complete with as new swivel vertical slide, travelling and fixed steady, vice, vee blocs and angle plates. Check ebay prices I would easily get back my money on the accessories alone.

Thirdly obously I have no experience with cheep lathes or mills, however if accessories are anything to go by I will not touch them, as the quality dose no compare to such items as a Dickson tool post and holders Bernard chucks as at first I ended up buying cheap and buying twice.

Fourth beware of paying too much for a clapped out lathe, as someone who is knowable to assess your intended purchase, I recently saw a second hand super seven with gearbox on the industrial stand for sale at £1000 in a model engineering shop, a reasonable price, hoverer where the tail stock ran the bed was worn 50 to 60 thou which means a bed regrind or even a scarped bed, I did not look any further as there would probably been even moor faults I walked away.



Hope this helps

Wayne

[Tony K]

Just a few comments from me. When starting out it is easy to get bogged down in trying to make things future-proof, when in fact you just want a start and to learn. For instance, the maximum distance between chuck and bed (centre height) and the length (between centres) are the main measures and 3¼in for the former and 12 in. minimum for the latter are probably good measures. It is easy to think this will be restrictive, but for model making it will probably keep you going for quite a while.
Havoc's advice above is probably as good as any. I agree with many of the comments above. The Myford 7 is a good, long lathe with standard attachments. Many or most of the models you have seen were made on this lathe, so that speaks for itself. One of these on eBay will be in the region of £500 - £800 depending on condition and the goodies it has. A reconditioned one from Myford will be £1500 plus!

Do not be put off by the later Myfords. The ML10 is a good lathe for model makers, bed length is shorter (13" between centres) and the bed is continuous instead of having a well under the chuck, but I think you will find it adequate for some time. The Speed10 is a longer (18") version. These tend to be cheaper because the 7 is more sought-after and you should get a good one on eBay for £400. They are not quite so well engineered as the 7 but still nice lathes and newer..

Beware of a Myford cult following though. Details of Myfords are here.... www.lathes.co.uk/myford/

If you buy off eBay, make sure you get to see before you buy. They say the camera never lies but it is amazing how it bends sometimes.
It is easy to rule out many good lathes because everyone recommends and wants a Myford. This is along the lines of what Tel was saying - there are plenty of other lathes going quite cheaply.

I think Boxfords are excellent value for money and excellent lathes. For instance, I think a Boxford is a better animal and most have automated cross-feed as well. That's the problem - everyone has their opinion. Maybe for later.

If you are anywhere near Nottingham, you could pay a visit to David at TradeSalesDirect. You can see a good second hand selection there and I have found him knowledgeable and he gives good advice based on what you want to do.

Website at....
www.tradesalesdirect.co.uk/

Phil Sutton says he has a Warco Mini. This has the advantage that it can be new, excellent value for money, cheaper than Myford and you do not have to worry about its condition. I think they are really good machines, if a little on the chunky side (not reflected in their owners I am sure ;D ). Not sure of second hand value. I would not bother about getting parts for a Warco in 50 years time - reckon Myford will not be there in 50 years time either.

Wayne's advice on not buying cheap second hand chucks etc because you may have to buy twice, is seconded by me.
There it is, my opinion. Like Oscar Wilde said "I always pass on good advice - it's the only thing to do with it!" Then again, I would not recommend you model yourself on him either.

Regards, Tony

[Uzzy]

I managed to purchase a 2nd hand Myford Speed 10 many years ago at a nock down price it was classed and use although it had only been used as a prop in a garage "Coranation St" if I remember correctly much as I would like a ML7 the Spped 10 came with 3 and 4 jaw chucks, centres etc and if I remember rightly cost about £1000 although that does now look pricey before this I had an MD65. Ebay is a good place to look and get an idea of what is about but some of the prices are heavy try the home workshop website - homeworkshop.org.uk.
Best of luck.