Simplex Blower Valve and Pipe

[johnmiller]

Hi everybody - I have recently aquired a 14 year old Simplex which has not done much running and she appears to have been well built and put together. Unfortunately the builder(s) used alluminium washers, instead of copper, for installing the boiler fittings and they have corroded badly.

The problem that I now have is that, when I try to remove the blower valve it just springs back because the blower tubing inside the boiler won't let go.

As I see it I have the following options....

!) - Apply more torque to the valve and risk destroying the blower pipe inside the boiler - I would then have to remove the blower valve and the smokebox union in order to replace it, together with other smokebox piping for access.

2) - Clean up the space between the blower valve and its bush then wind fine copper wire where the new washer should be and attempt to "cast" a new washer in place with soft solder.

3) - Plug both the backhead bush and the smokebox bush and run a new blower line externally to the boiler cladding.

Any comments or other ideas would be most welcome as I am looking for an expediant way to perform a hydraulic test to see if there are any other problems that I can fix while it is disassembled.

Many thanks everybody....

[alanstepney]

It used to be common practice to use aluminium washers on fittings.
In fact, I still have a stock of them.
I've never had a problem with them corroding and locking the fitting, but perhaps I am lucky.

The great advatage of them is that, when new, they are soft and compress so that the fitting is in line, plus they seal the joint.
Some GENTLE heat on the fitting may enable you to unscrew it, and is certainly worth a try (assuming you havent tried it already).

I dont like your number 2, and would try to save the present situation if at all possible.
To me, 3 is a last resort.

[nigelh]

Could some kind person please describe to me how the blower pipe is made steam tight at each end of the boiler ? My boiler has 3/8" x 40 bushes fitted to the back head and smoke box tube plate, so I'm assuming one has to run pipe between them but I can't, for the life of me, see how to make it steam tight and, at the same time, removable - very much as John's problem.
Also, am I correct in thinking that the blower pipework is 3/16" dia ??
Any help/advice would be most appreciated. Thanks!

[dj]

Hi Nigel long time no speak - your satellite stuff is still a great boon to me here.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but did you not get your boiler from Helen? If so, between those bushes inside the boiler is a tube which looks like a longitudinal stay - at least there is on mine, and all you need to do is connect a steam feed at the backhead and a pipe to connect to the blower nozzle at the smokebox end. To check, poke a bit of copper wire in at one or other end and see if it comes out at the opposite end.

Even the cullinder I got from Oz had a pipe connecting the two bushes.

Cheers

John

[nigelh]

Hi John,
many thanks for your reply & great to hear from you! Hope your health is improving and I'm glad that the satellite pictures are still proving useful.
Yes, I got my boiler from Helen, at Western Steam but, sadly, there is not a pipe inside the boiler connecting the two bushes - they both go straight into the steam space! A hollow longitudinal stay would solve the problem nicely!
I guess my best bet now is to blank the two bushes and run the blower pipework external to the boiler or will it be possible to retrofit the hollow stay, if I can find some suitable copper tubing?
ooops - I've now spotted it on the drawing (LO935, sheet4) on the cross section through the boiler where it shows "1/4"D x 16g blower tube".
So, I need to locate some tube and make up the unions for each end with 1/4" x 40 internal and 3/8" x 40 external threads.
What is the best way to seal those threads, in your experience??
Thanks John - the light has come on!!
It's a shame the boiler didn't come with it fitted though. I'll mention it to Helen
Regards
Nigel

[derby2p]

Hi Nigel,

I was faced with a similar situation a few months ago, puzzled at first why I had two holes in my boiler . I don't think the blower stay is one for the boilermaker, but I could be wrong (mine isn't from Western Steam by the way).

I'm sure the steam expert who advised me won't mind me sharing his solution - if I implemented it as he intended that is!

I silver soldered my stay into the blower valve body. At the smokebox end I silver soldered on a threaded ferrule which screwed into the tube plate and allowed connection to the blower union. The threads were sealed with Loctite - and finally I made a sealing nut with an incorporated "washer", no doubt they have a proper name, to sit nicely against the bush in the boiler. I hope that makes sense!? So at some point you have a blower stay on your bench with a ferrule on one end, and a blower valve on the other - the whole lot is then fed through the backhead and screwed into the tubeplate (from inside) and then the blower valve screws into its bush. That's how I did it, it went like a dream - just have a dummy run or two and you can pass a thin rod through the tubeplate to help align things if needed.

I did take a picture of my blower stay, but could never find it! You can see the end result in the smokebox at the bottom of this page:

www.livesteambuilds.com/index.php/build-diary-of-don-young-s-derby-2p-3-5-loco/13-smokebox

I'm a bit foggy on the subject now, but 16g tube seemed hard to get. I think you can use thinner, but if you want to use that specced then I can recommend Blackgates (who have a great range of copper tube, in my opinion anyway). Presuming of course that you order from the UK.

Good luck - Mike.

[Deleted]

Hey Mike

Good to see you on the forum, I just took a look at the recent updates on your 2p build, very nice mate, oh and I'm very jealous of your workshop machines... lots of DRO's... great stuff...

Pete

[dj]

Back on topic -

Nigel, if there isn't a tube connecting those bushes, I do think your idea of blocking them off and running a bit of pipe under the right running board and into the smokebox is the easiest way round the problem.

The thought of concentric threads as in Martin Evans' regulator, fills me with dread - threaded copper tube is not the easiest thing to deal with.

Good luck with it.

John

[nigelh]

Hi Mike and John,
very many thanks for those words of wisdom. I feel tempted to have a go at your method, Mike, if I can obtain a suitable piece of 1/4" x 16g tube. I do order from the UK generally but postage costs can be a bit horrific with the added risk of things not always arriving!
If that proves impossible/too expensive, then I'll go with John's suggestion.
I suppose Martin Evans had a good reason for running the blower steam through the boiler - maybe to stop it condensing before getting to the blower jet?

Again, many thanks folks,
Regards
Nigel

[uuu]

Does the hollow stay still function to support the boiler plates? So you couldn't just blank the bushes off, you'd need a solid stay screwed in?

[Shawki Shlemon]

If you can't find 1/4" thick wall tube ,there is 3/16" copper tube with 16g wall , it should be available , I have used both 3/16 & 1/4 " for the hollow stay , use mike process , I don't have to repeat it , it works fine . To help guiding it from one hole to the other , use a torch and 1/16 wire or rod ,guided through and then guide the tube over the wire .

[nigelh]

Thanks Shawki for the encouragement - funnily enough, just a few minutes ago, over a cup of coffee, it occurred to me that a slightly smaller dia. pipe would probably be OK as the threaded bush and blower valve would support it at each end.
I don't know the answer to "uuu's" question - I'm guessing it wouldn't make much difference because there is a fire tube just below the bushes whereas on the other, left hand, side there is quite a bap between the highest fire tube and the wet header bush.
Regards
Nigel