Rob Roy 3.5" Locomotive

[roconnor]

Hi All,
I was advised by a very helpful lady at Reeves that the 'Rob Roy' 3.5"Loco would be an ideal first locomotive for a M.E. newcomer to build ?
I would like to ask whether the Warco Mini Lathe or Chester equivalent lathe would have sufficient power and swing over the bed to turn this loco's 3.25inch wheels??
Many Thanks,
roconnor

[dscott]

I had a look at these lathes and suddenly realised that they are a copy of the Unimat 3 with a much better drive belt. The best drive belt for that is a seal from a M.G B. engine oil filter.
For about £150 these lathes do have a place in any workshop as they have a high top speed,
which is ideal for tiny parts. As usual if possible go for the next size up as the hobbie becomes a pleasure instead of a struggle.
I am looking at the DB8V lathe once the whole house re-decoration project gets finished.
What a prize to finishing it quickly. The DB7V comes in at £475 at the moment and would last through all the projects, plus being able to mill on a verticle slide is a good plus.
Saves buying a mill for a few years.
I do hope this helps you.
David.

[John Lee]

roconnor said:

Hi All,
I was advised by a very helpful lady at Reeves that the 'Rob Roy' 3.5"Loco would be an ideal first locomotive for a M.E. newcomer to build ?
I would like to ask whether the Warco Mini Lathe or Chester equivalent lathe would have sufficient power and swing over the bed to turn this loco's 3.25inch wheels??
Many Thanks,
roconnor

Hello,

The Rob Roy is often advised as the ideal beginners locomotive from common wisdom rather than experience, but it is, and it is'nt.

By all means buy the book about building it; its a good general work about loco building. But the finished product can be marginal as a running loco unless very well built. There are some nice ones out there which work well, but as a first effort something slightly bigger would be better. There are also problems with the crosshead pump as described; I seem to remember a fix is described on this forum somewhere.

If you are going to buy the minilathe, and it's sold under lots of names, look at www.arceurotrade.co.uk as well, usual disclaimer. Yes it would do this job I suppose, but if you add up the price of a properly fettled one, you are rapidly heading towards the price of a 40 year old, amateur bought and owned, and much loved and cared for probably, changewheel ML7 that will be far easier to use and more accurate. Another old debate.

You may want to consider, also can be constructed on that size lathe, the "Chub" from GLR Distributors, the "Scamp" from Reeves as well, maybe "Railmotor" from Reeves. All more modern designs which are just that bit bigger than a Rob Roy, just as easy to build (indeed easier) with more power therefore room for error, and all somewhat less fiddly. A "Simplex" would be a better bet as well, but that would be on the ragged edge of the capacity of the lathe you are considering I think.

I still enjoy 3 1/2 guage, but a small 5" guage is much easier to build and has better passenger hauling capacity, if that is your aim. A less than expert build of a Rob Roy will struggle a bit to pull more than you and one more person. They all have about the same number of bits, cost the same to do, and will take the same time to build.

Hope that helps

John

[John Lee]

dscott said:

I had a look at these lathes and suddenly realised that they are a copy of the Unimat 3 with a much better drive belt. The best drive belt for that is a seal from a M.G B. engine oil filter.
David.

David,

Unless we are all at cross purposes here, roconnor is talking about the 7x10 ( 3 1/2" swing over bed) lathe sold under lots of names around the world including Harbour Freight, Busy Bee, Clarke etc etc, and sold in the UK by Chester, Warco, Arceurotrade and indeed your local Machinemart in different colours. All the same lathe from china, much belittled in the past but they seem now to be much improved, especially if fixed up a bit by the importer.

Google "7 x 10 lathe" for much information; they are popular.

There is a copy of the Unimat 3, also from China, but this is a much smaller machine and you could'nt realistically tackle a loco on one. As you say, good for tiny parts though.

The Chester lathes you are considering are bigger yet again.

Regards,

John

[Myford Matt]

I think you'd be much happier with an ML7 - better resale return if it turns out to be a mistake (it won't). The Chinese machines are much better than they used to be - but a good Myfords is still better. Just as important, there is a huge amount of knowledge, spares, extras and projects for Myfords. They are a classy machine, and popular for all the right reasons. Check out Myfrd at www.lathes.co.uk for some good advice.

MM (yes, a bit biased)

[jones]

Hey everyone,

I would just like to chime in here, I first bought a Myford ML7 lathe 2nd hand because of all of the good things I had heard about them. Unfortunately, I knew very little about lathes and the Myford I bought had some wear near the headstock. Not excessive, around 10 thou, but for a beginner this threw me off completely. It also had all sorts of backlash in most slides. This has put me off Myford lathes. I am sure that a new one, or well cared for one would be great but the one I had was pretty bad. (I also HATE the finicky little oilers!)
Now that lathe has been sold to make way for my new 12x36 lathe made in TAIWAN, not China. Apparently there's a big difference in quality but I havn't used a Chinese one to compare. The new lathe is leagues ahead of the Myford (the one I had) in accuracy, rigidity and size. At first I was amazed at how big a cut I could take in brass and alluminium.

Well, enough rambling from me. Lets see how many people I infuriate with my comments about the myford oilers
Andrew

[John Lee]

jones said:

Hey everyone,

I would just like to chime in here, I first bought a Myford ML7 lathe 2nd hand because of all of the good things I had heard about them. Unfortunately, I knew very little about lathes and the Myford I bought had some wear near the headstock. Not excessive, around 10 thou, but for a beginner this threw me off completely. It also had all sorts of backlash in most slides. This has put me off Myford lathes. I am sure that a new one, or well cared for one would be great but the one I had was pretty bad. (I also HATE the finicky little oilers!)
Now that lathe has been sold to make way for my new 12x36 lathe made in TAIWAN, not China. Apparently there's a big difference in quality but I havn't used a Chinese one to compare. The new lathe is leagues ahead of the Myford (the one I had) in accuracy, rigidity and size. At first I was amazed at how big a cut I could take in brass and alluminium.

Well, enough rambling from me. Lets see how many people I infuriate with my comments about the myford oilers
Andrew

Does'nt infuriate me; you are quite right about the oilers. Like Matt I have a Myford, for the same reasons, and they are very nice, and very versatile, but far from being the only choice. In fact if somebody had or was planning to get separate milling facilities, I would go for a Boxford. I do have a mill now, so some of the versatility argument in favour of a Myford is a moot point for me.

It does sound like you were unfortunate. The wear at the headstock end and all the backlash is symptomatic of it having come from an industrial environment and probably tarted up a bit. There are lots of them around!. An amateur new purchased and used Myford would never get into this state given how much use it would get in comparison, even after years.

For people looking for their first lathe, a quick check (applies to any second hand lathe). Run the carriage end to end, if it tightens up at the tailstock end, or is sloppy at the headstock end (depends, of course, how the gibs are adjusted), then walk away. You need not check more; the bed regrind will be the least of your expense to put it right.

Regards,

John

[Tony K]

Roconnor - I remember your original thread, now in page 3 (not that page 3, but now equally interesting for me! ;D) on selecting a lathe.
modeleng.proboards20.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1160858449#1161078211

I stick by what I said at the time, but I do think you were probably unlucky. I hope the thread does not throw up all sorts of defensive stuff about Myford due to its cult following and not answer your original question about Rob Roy (regret I am unable to answer it!).

All good wishes for the new acquisition.

Regards, Tony.

[ron]

Getting back to the original subject, I think a lot depends what is meant by a beginner, I'm a relative beginner to model engineering but not a beginner to engineering, whereas someone could be completely new to the whole subject.
At present I've started a Simplex after making several Stuart Turner engines and I would question whether any of these so called 'beginner locos' are all that suitable for a complete beginner. The Simplex is touted as suitable for beginners but I think it would be a hard job to complete for someone totally inexperienced or at least a long slow painful learning experience, I think anyone new wanting to build a loco would be well advised to make a few Stuart or similar engines to get a feel for what it's all about.
Ron

[spurley]

Hi Roconnor(?)

I am on the 'closing straight' of a 3 1/2" gauge Tich, this is described as a 'simple locomotive for beginners'! Whilst LBSC talks one through most stages of building the engine in his 'words and music', I am not totally convinced of the simple bit! However, the parts are available from a variety of sources and unfinished engines seem quite plentiful. All the castings will be of a size to suit your lathe and are generally well produced.

I have some parts at home; wheel castings, horns, frame and buffer beam material, to make a Rob Roy along with the 'words and music' and a set of plans. I'm sure I will eventually get around to building the loco but again I'm not convinced of the simplicity.

In 3 1/2" gauge the parts are, by nature, very small and any error outside accepted tolerance will be magnified; for instance wheel quartering or wheel spacing can be a real headache. I now believe that 5" is a more 'forgiving' scale both from the watchmaking angle as well as any builder introduced problems!

There is a healthy section on this board about the Simplex engine range and I'm certain one of the builders will be happy to advise you the advantages of this over others! Also there are versions of GWR Pannier tanks by LBSC, Speedy or Pansy, which might take your fancy? They appear fairly straightforward, although Pansy has inside cylinders which means making a crank axle whereas Speedy is an outside cylinder version. Not 100% certain what wheel size they are or whether the wheels could done on your lathe, sorry.

Hope this helps, in some small way?

Cheers

Brian

[greasemonkey]

Hi Roconnor
Rob Roy is a great little loco but as has been said above will be unforgiving of mistakes and errors in its construction. You may also find it laking in the adhesvie power stakes when pulling pasengers on your club track. For an engine that is not a lot biger then have a look at Gemma, Scamp or my choice Dougal. Dougal is the easiest of all to build as it has the simplest valve gear of any model, Slip eccentric, no curved expansion link and a lot less motion parts to make. If you want something a bit bigger then try Pansy, Speedy or Simplex. What happened to your plan to build the Y4 with Doug? That would be a reasonable engine.

Andy

[gordonfrench]

I can't speak about Rob Roy, but I built my own "Tich" and it included all the mistakes a beginner usually makes. It took me 2 years to learn how to drive with such a small firebox, but it can be done. I can take a 60 pound child with me and it will pull the 1,100 foot Golden Gate Live Steamers track in Tilden Park near Berkeley, California. Since then I have acquired a "Maisie" and it is a joy to run. One thing the Roy Roy has is ultimate portability. You can stuff it into a trunk (read boot) and get it back out again without help. No hydraulics, no heavy lifting. But you do have to learn how to fire and drive!
Gordon French, Roseburg, Oregon, USA

[Shawki Shlemon]

Hi roconor
Andy mentioned Gemma ,if you are interested go to my web site and look at Gemma and see what it can do and is as simple as Rob Roy or may be simpler. Just a thought .Wish you all the best whatever you choose .

[mmaidnz]

I,m a bit surprised no-one has mentioned sweet pea.A good size 5" loco,and the bits are quite easy to make from stock if you don't want to pay the high cost of castings.
As a relative newcomer to m.e.ing,I don't have too much trouble understanding the drawings.Mind you ,I do have the book as well,which does help a lot.
As far as a lathe goes,6 months after buying,you'll find you need to turn something 1/2" bigger than your lathe swings:).My own is a 13x40 taiwanese machine from about the 70's,and I'm very happy with it.It's more accurate than i can work too,and i doubt i will ever need bigger.my$0.02.

[Shawki Shlemon]

Hi
It is me again , on lathe this time , I must agree with mmaidnz that a little larger lathe will be useful in the future for sure. I was given this advice 26 years ago when I acquired mine and thank GOD I took it . Best of luck.