Injector trouble

[ianb]

Hello I wonder if I can post this copy of a email I have sent to my friend about my injector problems and see if any ideas of a solution..



Hi I am having terrible trouble with this injector, I am really racking my brain for a solution. I have replaced the clack valve but it is still the same. What it is doing is shooting the water from the bunker tank straight out of the overflow on the injector once the steam is turned on. I have tried differant settings with the water flow and steam, It can empty the bunker in no time. I know it is the bunker water as it has run it dry and see it drop on the water level gauge I put on it.

It seems to have enough water supply to it and it is sucking the bunker water but not delivering it to the boiler. The last thing that happened today before I called it a day was the clack seemed to stick open and act as a blow down through the injector overflow which was quite scary and I had to drop the fire quick and try and pump some water in with the handpump.

The only other thing I can think of is to try another injector also not sure if it would make a differance but I am trying to feed the boiler from the back head clack, not sure if this would make any differance than like some I have seen the clack up towards the smoke box.

Many thanks for reading....Ian

[RLWP]

Jan 12, 2013 18:14:20 GMT ianb said:

{snip}

the clack seemed to stick open

{snip}

Many thanks for reading....Ian

I would start there

Richard

[Shawki Shlemon]

I am no expert on injectors but I like to make a couple of comments , first it is not the position of the clack , I have that arrangement on some of my engines and injector works , secondly it seems the injector sucks the water , the problem is in delivery to the boiler , so have a look at the clack , clacks for injectors like more lift than normal clacks , also piping , try as direct as possible , my last point is injectors don't like hot/warm water , is your bunker water hot , a cold supply would be better . I hope this helps .

[ianb]

Hi Gents thankyou for the responce, I have replaced both clacks on the boiler with new comercial replacements so I think they are ok.

Shawki, you have given me an idea, I have also heard about more lift! Does this mean I could simply release the top cap of the clack a turn or so to adjust the the lift? maybe find optimum position could be a plan.

I have a new injector on order but the one I have been using is new.
The pipe work is a direct as can be on the simplex without going through the frame.
Water is fed from a bunker at the rear fed by the side tanks.

A friend today told me of a way to check the water tap to see if any air leaks through the spindle. So few more things to check.

Thanyou again for the help....Ian

[jma1009]

hi ian,

it sounds to me that the injector steam valve or pipework from same has an obstruction in it restricting the steam supply. when the injector steam valve is opened there should be a free passageway for steam from boiler turret to injector of 1/8" dia bore, the pipe being an easy run with no sharp bends or kinks. the valve spindle could be obstructing the exit passageway in the valve or the passageways in the valve could be too small, or there could be a foreign body in the turret or valve or pipe, or the pipework partly blocked with over generous silver soldering etc.

a backhead clack below the water line is the worst place to feed water.

cheers,
julian

[Shawki Shlemon]

Ian , the answer is yes .

[ianb]

Hi Julian, I wonder if you are a member of the Cardiff club? I have emailed them in regards to the Welsh Rally in June, I hope to be there.

Big NEWS on the injector story.. I know fixing more than one suspect problem can lead to never knowing what was the cause but in my world I look at it I just want it fixed.. I replaced the injector with a no4, another clack from a diferant supplier and all of a sudden I started to get results. I am still not complettly happy with it but I am able to get water into the boiler which is a massive relief.

I have a 2 pint bunker tank and allready saw that the water flow from the main tanks was not flowing fast enough into the bunker and the injector would run out of water supply it seems.

I have upgraded the 3/16 pipework that was linking the tanks to 3/8 and really happy now with the flow through the main tanks and the bunker, infact it is quick enough you could just top up one tank and be sure within a few seconds it will equalise into the other, so water flow should not be a problem (hopefully).

I adjusted the lid of the bunker to add a slope to be able to access to fire hole easier so have had the system water filled for some hours sitting on the lounge floor (as you do) and found a weeping leak on the thread of the under floor water valve! so that could cause an air leak!

Like I said still not 100% happy but moved further on and I will test tomorrow on the rolling road.

As I said earlier not sure if the original no3 injector is faulty or the new clack (Clack number 3 is on boiler) as I have replaced them but will test them later on the next project Speedy. Its all a learning curve but great to chat and throw these problems and thoughts around the bonfire with you guys.

The lift, the water flow, the steam pressure is what I have learnt that makes the injector work...In Curlys words "Job Done" Hopefully...

All the best for now....Ian

[ianb]

Julian, I have just reread your post!! You again have made me think about the feed to the boiler from the injector. On the GW 1500 (Speedy) which I am studying it has the injector supplying water to the top of the boiler (As well as the axle pump). I have seen some Super Simplex pictures and they have almost the same arrangement, not sure as I am learning...But makes me think this is a better way than feeding the boiler low. I guess experimentation will only tell but thankyou again for your thought provoking comment about the water line!!

Regards....Ian

[jma1009]

hi ian,
i expect i will be there in june... i will look forward to seeing your SIMPLEX and you can have a drive of one of my locos, weather permitting!
top feed is the best place to feed water into the boiler.
i have built locos with feed into the backhead but i have the clack higher up with an internal pipe feeding to the front of the boiler and above the water line.
cheers,
julian

[nonort]

You could try steaming the engine with the feed pipe from the injector to the clack at the clack end loose. If the injector picks up it points to the clack as the problem, insufficient lift or obstruction sometimes the ball covers the exit and knocks the injector off. If you can get the injector to work with the union loose next try tightening the union whilst it is feeding and see if it keeps feeding if not definitely the clack is at fault. The other thing is to by pass the injector water valve the simplest way to do this is to make a tail to fit the water intake and use a separate tank this will remove any chance of an air leak on the vacuum side of the injector. Hope this will help.

[johnthepump]

Hi Ian,
I have found when dealing with injector problems, I try a spare injector of known quality, if that works then fault is your injector is faulty. I tested three injectors on my test boiler (ex A.E.G) last evening one was brand new but did not work just threw it out of the overflow. The other 2, one worked well the other was useless. Julian will know this test boiler, also when the club was building as Super Simplex back in 94 he insisted the boiler should have top feed, its worked well although we don't take our injector feed water from the side tanks as it is to warm we have a tank on the driving truck.
Regards JtP

[Deleted]

Hello chaps----------- I'm sure TAFF will remember that back in the day it wasn't unusual for the driver or fireman to answer the "call of nature" with a dousing over a temperamental injector ( especially during a hot summer--remember those?)--- or the bucket contents, maybe ??

[jma1009]

hi john!

gosh, that brings back a few memories! i remember the test boiler on Arthur's gas stove very well... i was present most of that summer when he made his last batch of injectors for Don Young, and watched the well worn Atlas make all the parts whilst i was on the Le Blond making bits for my first loco.... my 5"g RAILMOTOR which Jim Green now has.

Happy Days! "Cant Be Bad", and "That'll Do"!

i think i was turning the wheels at the time... i asked have you got a 'so and so' tool and was told to use what was in the toolpost. one cut each side did the trick on auto! later in the same summer i tidied up APTULE expecting some thanks but only got consternation and horror!

i've a pic somewhere of the SUPER SIMPLEX on the dining room table where it stayed for most of 12 months as an assembly bench as the workshop was full up. the pic show's Lucy at about 12 months reaching up to the loco...she's 18 now!

cheers,
julian

[johnthepump]

Hi Julian,
The Le Blond lathe, Atlas lathe, Cutter grinder, One of Arthur's own make drilling machines, the test boiler and all the injector tools Which I bought from him as they became available, moved from the Waterhole to the Pumphouse, which A.E.G performed the opening in 1990. Saturday afternoon in the Waterhole where so much model engineering went on, Aurthur would help and advise allow the use of his machinery. When he retired & sold the Waterhole, I decided to carry on the open house policy in the Pumphouse the only real change we made was to the day & time, So for 20 odd years Wednesday evenings in the Pumphouse until 10.00pm & then up the local for a pint & a chat as uuu well knows. The clubs Super Simplex spent many hours on the bench as parts made by member were fitted, before going to Julian for the finishing. Over time there have been many loco repairs for members overhauls to club engines & trolley's. What Arthur started all those years ago I have endeavored to carry on.
Regards JtP