CRB Checks

[jackrae]

Our club is a limited company and operate a paying passenger service for 2 to 3 hours each Sunday afternoon during the summer season (weather permitting)
Today we held our AGM and under "any other business" the topic of CRB check requirements was thrown into the melting pot. Needless to say some subjective opinions were voiced. Urban myths abound and we, as a club, need to cut through the fog to get things into perspective.
Can anyone offer objective, or legal, comment as to the requirement, if any, (legal, insurance or otherwise) for clubs or club members who run such infrequent public service to get such tests done.

[Smifffy]

We don't require CRB checks at my society, but we do have rules about society members and how they interact with children. It is not a legal requirement for such checks to be carried out for your members.

There are certain jobs where it is a legal requirement.

If you ask your members to provide them they can refuse and then you'll need to decide how you deal with that. You'll probably find a few members walking.

Smifffy

[waggy]

Morning Jackrae,

Have a look at the link below, hopefully of help to you.

www.gov.uk/disclosure-barring-service-check/overview

We have a percentaage of members holding CRB clearance in accordance with our lease, other clubs will no doubt have their own arrangements.

Waggy.

[houstonceng]

Jackrae

We have regular public running every other Sunday and none of our members has a CRB - save any who have them for other organisatio0ns such as Scouts.

Unless your members are doing 1:1 tuition with minors, there is no requirement for CRBs. If you think about it, in a crowd situation, if members required CRBs, then every other visiting adult would as well.

We just have a policy that:-
1. Only parents or guardians lift children on and off trains - unless the loader/unloader is asked specifically to assist by the Parent or Guardian (eg in the case of a disabled child).
2. A responsible adult MUST ride with their child/children.
3. An adult rides immediately in front of the club guard on the back of the train.

We have a St Johns attendance (male and female) at each running date, so that expert help is available, if required, and no member has to touch a minor to check injuries.

If a minor joins the club, we require his/her P/G to become an associate and to bring him/her, if the minor is going to come to the Thursday evening meetings. If the minor requires 1:1 tuition, then the P/G must be there as well. Actually, this has the advantage that the P/G gains knowledge and often becomes and active modeller as well.

[nonort]

Sorry to be a bearer of bad tidings but the CRB are to be disbanded at the end of the month. They will become the DBS (Disclosure and Barring Service) most of the rules appear to be the same although some of the regulated things in the old system are now not included. Just to muddy the waters more in between the CRB and DBS we had the VBS (Vetting and Barring Service) The changes have been brought about by the European law courts challenging the human rights aspect of the old system

[jackrae]

Yeh, I know it's now DBS but I think most of us currently understand the use of the term CRB.

Comments so far have been most helpful, keep them coming and many thanks.

I also do voluntary work for a national charity that involves contact with "vulnerable" people of all ages. Several years ago, when I joined, I queried with our chief executive officer, whether I needed to be "certified" (no comment !) and the response was "no" as our individual contact was of a "time limited" nature. Much the same argument no doubt applies to "meals on wheels" volunteers.

[Boadicea]

Good post from houstonceng.
Jack, I think the first thing to do is get someone to actually read the Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act (SVGA) documentation and make recommendations - there are usually plenty with opinions, but no knowledge. I think this leads to over-reaction.

It seems to me the requirements break down into two parts - the public having train rides and vulnerable members, often junior.

I think it is important to assess whether any of your activities are regulated activities according to the act. Most, if not all, club activities will not be in this category and can be ignored except for the need to consider this when bringing in new activities.
For vulnerable members it is important to look at this separately and make recommendations. One way is to insist vulnerable members always have a parent/guardian/carer with them and another potential issue is transport to club events - possibly always two adults present etc. A reminder to members of how a build-up of relationships can happen and be misinterpreted, how members who feel an issue is happening to them can make it known etc. are all worthwhile.

Having done this, I think it is important to have a SIMPLE policy stating the above. This shows you have considered the issues and you might point out it is live in the way new activities coming into the club are assessed. Communicate this to members. Review it regularly. Members can see your club is considering the issues, is taking things seriously and not just ignoring it.

Like most things in life, it boils down to common sense - but informed common sense. I think there is no need to ban touching but, like in life, it is probably good to keep physical contact to a minimum. This is a good reason for having separate guard trucks. Common sense says you will get no thanks for allowing a child to fall off a train by saying you were not allowed to touch.

Best of luck with it Jack - from your posts I know you will be looking at this in a reasoned manner, but there really is no alternative than to read the Act - boring though it may be!

[Smifffy]

Hmmm Boadicea, I cannot agree with your last comment.

Reading the act will most likely cause more confusion, that's what we have lawyers for (not to confuse us!).

Common sense should prevail, define a policy as and implement it as others (and you) have outlined above.

Smifffy

[Boadicea]

Mar 20, 2013 20:45:23 GMT Smifffy said:

Hmmm Boadicea, I cannot agree with your last comment. Reading the act will most likely cause more confusion, that's what we have lawyers for (not to confuse us!). Common sense should prevail, define a policy as and implement it as others (and you) have outlined above. Smifffy

OK smifffy, well done, I concede I should have just said it is really important to know what the Act ACTUALLY says - maybe this is available somewhere else, translated into English. Anyone who is doing this properly has to know what the regulated activities are within the Act. Otherwise there may be over-reaction, resulting in something like the elf & safety mess we have.

[ejparrott]

Mar 18, 2013 10:19:59 GMT houstonceng said:

We have regular public running every other Sunday and none of our members has a CRB - save any who have them for other organisatio0ns such as Scouts.

Not valid, the CRB is only relevant to the organisation for which it was commisioned. I have three CRB certs, one for each of the three guide units to which I am affiliated. Non of them stand at RMES, or at the Talyllyn.

[Boadicea]

Mar 22, 2013 16:36:39 GMT ejparrott said:

Not valid, the CRB is only relevant to the organisation for which it was commisioned. I have three CRB certs, one for each of the three guide units to which I am affiliated. Non of them stand at RMES, or at the Talyllyn.

Why do you need one for RMES?
What are you doing which is a regulated activity under the act?

[houstonceng]

ejparrot

I wasn't suggesting that a CRB (or euivalent new nomencliture) from another organisation was valid in our MES. Just wanted to be accurate in stating facts.

Should have said "No-one has a CRB (or DNS / VBS) that is valid for our MES.

[heronsgate]

why would anyone need three checks for three Girl Guide units, my own area only required me to obtain one, for any amount of help I like to give to them with any unit in the district.

[RLWP]

Mar 23, 2013 8:07:07 GMT heronsgate said:

why would anyone need three checks for three Girl Guide units, my own area only required me to obtain one, for any amount of help I like to give to them with any unit in the district.

Then presumably the organisation that got the CRB check done was the area, not the individual groups.

CRB checks belonged to organisations, not individuals

Richard

[ejparrott]

Mar 22, 2013 18:08:53 GMT Boadicea said:

Why do you need one for RMES?
What are you doing which is a regulated activity under the act?

We investigated the requirement a few years ago, we found it not required. We don't have CRB's, we don't carry out any activity that falls within the requirements for one.

[wiltsrob]

Afternoon...

I will ask at work when i go in next.. they have just put a couple of the managers through the course on this. and i will eventually have to resit the course as well but my cert was only issued to me end last year.

from my understanding of the current regs ... it isnt required for clubs/organisations where the member wont be in sole charge of a child..

About junior members .. if you have a dedicated person in the club who looks after/teaches the person without a parent/gaurdian/carer present then that person will need a cert..

I would need to check the current reg but ...if the club holds birthday parties/private parties for children then as long as there is suitable parental numbers ( 1 : 6 iirc ) then no cert is needed but if the ratio is worse then a cert is required by the supervising members.

Robert

[jackrae]

Many thanks to all for the informed guidance. I am a strong believer in the application of a modicum of common sense, with the individual being the principal person responsible for their own well-being, something that seems to be lacking in today's elf and safety culture.
Jack