Cylinder drain cocks

[grandfathertyke]

I've nearly completed my Simplex and am now doing the smaller jobs while waiting for delivery of the boiler later in the year. The loco was started by someone else, and one thing he did that deviates from the drawings was to install drain cocks. He made no provision on the frames for any linkage, so I have a couple of options, it seems. One is to ask if anybody has got a drawing for the linkage so I can retro-fit. Another is to remove the cocks and fit plugs; a friend tells me that with a slide-valve loco they are not that essential as if there is an excess of water in the cylinders then the valves will lift off their seats and it will be blown out that way rather than compress and cause damage. (Not the case with a piston-valve loco, he tells me.)

Any advice gratefully received.

Frank

[RLWP]

There is another option (isn't there always)

Link the two draincocks together on each side, and operate them manually at the start of a running session to warm the cylinders through. That way, you don't need a linkage to the footplate

Richard

[Deleted]

Mar 19, 2013 13:39:09 GMT RLWP said:

Link the two draincocks together on each side, and operate them manually at the start of a running session to warm the cylinders through.

The downside to that, is having left the station with your trainload of passengers, you'll have to stop after a short distance, get off, close the cocks, get back on again and restart. Won't look very professional!

[pault]

You could not have any linkage at all and have steam operated drain cocks

[RLWP]

Mar 19, 2013 18:35:23 GMT @superseven said:

Mar 19, 2013 13:39:09 GMT RLWP said:

Link the two draincocks together on each side, and operate them manually at the start of a running session to warm the cylinders through.

The downside to that, is having left the station with your trainload of passengers, you'll have to stop after a short distance, get off, close the cocks, get back on again and restart. Won't look very professional!

Hey, I didn't say it was a good method!

It was fairly common at one time though

Richard

[grandfathertyke]

Yes, I wondered about automatic drain cocks. Are there any drawings/details anywhere, or are they commercially available?

[Shawki Shlemon]

Here is a drawing for the auto drain cock . I have fitted them on some engines , while you have no control on them and you can't open on demand , they work OK when regulator is closed .

Attachments:

[grandfathertyke]

Thanks Shawki. This looks like the way to go. Little project to fill in the odd moments between looking after grandchildren.

[Deleted]

The snag with automatic drain cocks is that they won't allow you to warm the cylinders by passing steam through. When you first open the regulator, the valve will close and the initial condensation will just fill the cylinder up. I think steam operated cocks as suggested by Pault are a better idea.

[Deleted]

Hello chaps----------- how about adopting RLWP's idea with both sides connected then have a bowden cable up to the cab instead of rodding ?? ---simples ------Gresley used it in full size, I believe ??

[gwrfan]

Mar 20, 2013 15:51:15 GMT @4930hagley said:

Hello chaps----------- how about adopting RLWP's idea with both sides connected then have a bowden cable up to the cab instead of rodding ?? ---simples ------Gresley used it in full size, I believe ??

That's what I have on my 57XX (Pansy). Easily fitted, and works a treat.

[Deleted]

Hello matey-------nice to hear from you ---how's the "Beast of Bodmin" doing these days then ?? ( the 57xx I meant --not you !) ;D ;D ;D-------------- Bowden works ok, doesn't it ?----- Some of the "Pure-istimo's" might tutt & cluck about your pannier (so what ?? ) but for a non-prototype such as Simplex it really doesn't matter....Frank, that's probably the easiest way to go....do a bit of experimenting and design work yourself maybe ?? Push-bike cable stripped of its' plastic outer cover would do the trick with something like thin piano wire running within ??...........

[pault]

Hi All
you can just run a thin bowden cable or piano wire or even just a thin steel wire, in a copper tube. you don't need the flexability of a bike cable. we have quite a few locos done with copper tube.

Regards
Paul

[doubletop]

Frank

I went through this with my Simplex only last year. Also a second hand refurb job.

Don't consider not having drain cocks. Despite it having slide valves it will hydraulic and knock like crazy if it runs at all. You will knock the hell out of all your running gear.

At one point my loco had been fitted with steam operated drain cocks but they had been removed and 4 separate manual taps fitted with no linkage. The loco needed all the bushes, pins, crossheads etc replacing as they were worn out. After I'd gone through the drain cock saga I realised why. Even with the manual cocks you couldn't open them on demand so knocking was going to happen at some point. As Superseven says auto drain cocks also have that problem.

I had the plumbing for steam operated cocks and made a set but the didn't work until I realised the operating valve had no way of venting the pressure when the cocks were set to be open. This may well have been why the 4 separate drain cocks had been fitted as a quick fix.

Anyway after a few less than satisfactory attempts I ended up with steam operated drain cocks that work on demand and now never suffer from any knocking.

The whole story over here on a thread started by Stewart Hart (now on the ME team) who is also re-furbishing a Simplex. The links lead to a number of drawings of different drain cocks

www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,240.30.html

Hope that helps

Pete

[grandfathertyke]

Thanks very much to all who have replied and made suggestions. What a great resource this forum is. I'll digest the information before making a move, but feel hopeful now that I can arrive at a solution.

Frank

[Deleted]

-------- might I add my thanks as well because I too have a Simplex in the pipeline for a "quickie" resto and it hasn't any drains on it either---- so that's ANOTHER job to do before it runs again!! Hey-ho----- ;D ;D

[nigelh]

Hi Frank,
here's another idea, from Dr john - his web site is a mine of information !
www.dr-john.org/simshow.php?varnum=68

That's the method I shall be using, when I get to that stage.

Good luck
Nigel

[ianb]

Hey, I have been working on this, I have linked up the pair of drain cocks on each cylinder, worked out how to link the two cylinders then stumped.
I want these working asap for club running...Hey presto a Bowden cable brilliant, will work for now until end of the season stripdown.

Many thanks again for a great thread....Ian

[ettingtonliam]

Wasn't the Bowden cable one of LBSC's solutions? I recall using it on my first loco, a Juliet in the 1960s, using the inner cable from a bicycle brake cable in a copper tube clipped to the frames, and an operating lever in the cab. It seemed to go out of fashion with the increasing desire to follow 'full size practice', but was very effective.

Richard

[gwrfan]

Yes, I believe it was his invention. He certainly recommended it for his 57XX Pansy, and I made mine to his 'Words and Music'. Only one drain cock on the steam chest, Bowden cable (as described) and it works very well.

Geoff