waggy
Statesman
Posts: 747
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Post by waggy on Apr 3, 2013 7:55:37 GMT
Morning all,
Yesterday at the track a discussion took place regarding issuing the green book to boiler owners. One member who has dual membership stated that his other club had decreed not to issue the book until the first WSE & hydraulic test is due under the new regs, as stated in the book.
Am I missing something here, I can't find any ruling in the book covering this? What's the big secret if I'm wrong?
As always, I stand to be corrected!
Waggy.
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Post by houstonceng on Apr 3, 2013 9:18:18 GMT
Waggy
No secret. It looks like the cother club has made a decidion not to isue it until a certain event. My MES Chairman bought a load and sold 'em on to any member who asked for one.
Some MES seem to make up their own rules regarding boiler testing as witnessed by the various threads that were discussed her and of which some are ongoing. As previous, the new Green book still has some anomolies and they've proven to be the seeds for major differences between boiler testers' processes.
BTW. Has anyonec noticed that the Green book was compilied with the agreement of the Midlands Fed but the paragraph on its applicability doesn't list the same Fed. It does list the S'fed, N'Fed and 7.25" Soc. So does that mean that any club in the Midlans Fed doesn't have to comform to the Green Book ?
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Post by GeorgeRay on Apr 3, 2013 14:50:39 GMT
The Green Book is part of the Written Scheme of Examination (WSE) and once a boiler is tested under the new code it is a requirement that the owner must have a copy of the green book. The new certificates cannot be used until a WSE has been prepared for a boiler. NAME and the Southern Federation have adopted two different approaches to introducing the new certificates. NAME are not implementing the WSE and new certificates until the next hydraulic test, this means that the old style steam test certificates must be used until the WSE is prepared. The Southern Fed have instructed their members to initiate use of the WSE at the next test whether hydraulic or steam and to use the new certificates from then on. Hope this makes sense.  |
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nonort
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If all the worlds a Stage someone's nicked the Horses
Posts: 279 
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Post by nonort on Apr 3, 2013 20:34:23 GMT
I have read the Green Book from cover to cover and can find no statement saying that every boiler owner has to have a copy of the green book. I am more than happy for someone to quote the paragraph etc that states this but it does not seem sensible to have thousands of copies. I understand that the Green Book has to be available for inspection when filling out the WSE or carrying out a hydraulic/steam test but after that why would you need one. You don't have an MOT hand book when MOTing your car and neither will the tester try to sell you one. The statement that every boiler should have a Green Book is totally nonsensical. All the boilers will be tested to the same Green Book criteria so an Insurance inspector will already have a copy of it to refer to. Or at the very least can be extracted from the club whom they are investigating. In my very humble opinion the fewer copies of the Green Book that are in general circulation the better as it will mean fewer interpretations of what is written in it. Which has caused enough speculation/trauma on the thread which I started sometime ago.
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gwrfan
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Post by gwrfan on Apr 3, 2013 21:32:33 GMT
I have read the Green Book from cover to cover and can find no statement saying that every boiler owner has to have a copy of the green book. In my very humble opinion the fewer copies of the Green Book that are in general circulation the better as it will mean fewer interpretations of what is written in it. Which has caused enough speculation/trauma on the thread which I started sometime ago. I have had two boilers tested recently, one with a full steam test, and it is certainly not the policy/finding of my own Society that everyone should be issued with a copy of the Green Book. As for interpretation. If the newly-written Rule Book needs to be interpreted, then in my own opinion it was not written very well. As has already been suggested, my interpretation of a rule will not be the same as someone else's. It looks to be that we are no further forward in protecting our hobby from bureaucratic pressure. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 22:40:49 GMT
Hello Chaps------(Just a quick pre-amble --- is there one green book per boiler ie is it issued against a boiler regd. No ?? OR one per OWNER ??)------ I can't believe what I'm reading !!  ------------We are expected to BUY,-- ie PAY CASH --such that we may then be privy to the rules and regs upon which we prepare our boilers for COMPULSORY testing  ??--- so what's wrong with a pdf download, maintained and updated by the issuing authority ......--------------This is not some sort of "Guessing game" played by children for heaven's sake !!!!!.... How am I the OWNER supposed to prepare (or have prepared for me) a boiler for that test if I don't know the parameters to work to ....Similarly how do you...or the mechanic preparing your car, know what the MoT test parameters are ?? Answer = By having FREE AND UNINHIBITED access to all the relevant data that the tester will be using.... OK, I do realise that a large majority of people just take their car for it's inspection with an overriding instruction for any items that need it to be "fixed" .... So in this instance the MoT becomes both a mechanical inspection AND the test all in one go....Now some model engineers may want to take that style of approach with their boiler, with all the repeat testing--travelling etc it may involve... Surely the better,more professional way is to be able to present your boiler already pre-tested and proven such that time with the club tester is a mere formality ----------------------- as well as a boiler owner, I'm also in the throes of designing one as well... Again, I don't see why I should be held to "ransom" by money for information that in the first instance is to do with SAFETY... allegedly !!  --------------With regards to interpretation then the dear old MoT is a classic example of one "Breed" of people (motorists) separated by a common testing system (the MoT), to freely mis-quote George Bernard Shaw....I would suggest at the very end of any documentation is placed}---- " All the foregoing is at the discretion of the examining officer"...because that's what your car is tested to as well............OK, time to drop my fire and blow-down !! |
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waggy
Statesman
Posts: 747
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Post by waggy on Apr 4, 2013 7:41:11 GMT
Morning all,
Well it looks as though yet again a simple question on here has been blown up out of all proportion!
There is no charge made by the Northern Association for the books and as far as I'm aware the requirement is for every boiler owner to have one. I can't speak for other organisations. If your club wants to charge, that's up to your club.
I fully agree that owners should know what's required of them, as I said, "what's the big secret?"
Waggy.
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Post by Boadicea on Apr 4, 2013 10:02:13 GMT
Morning all, well it looks as though yet again a simple question on here has been blown up out of all proportion!.... Waggy. Waggy, I think this subject generates more heat than anything else and is always very sensitive.  I have read the Green Book from cover to cover and can find no statement saying that every boiler owner has to have a copy of the green book. I am more than happy for someone to quote the paragraph etc that states this but it does not seem sensible to have thousands of copies. I understand that the Green Book has to be available for inspection when filling out the WSE or carrying out a hydraulic/steam test but after that why would you need one. You don't have an MOT hand book when MOTing your car and neither will the tester try to sell you one. The statement that every boiler should have a Green Book is totally nonsensical. All the boilers will be tested to the same Green Book criteria so an Insurance inspector will already have a copy of it to refer to. Or at the very least can be extracted from the club whom they are investigating. In my very humble opinion the fewer copies of the Green Book that are in general circulation the better as it will mean fewer interpretations of what is written in it. Which has caused enough speculation/trauma on the thread which I started sometime ago. Well said mate - the Boadicea Biscuit for Best Post goes to you. A good post from George too. There is a copy of the code on websites various. The code is what it is. Forget about changing it. We have to abide by it. I think it is time people started to use their loaf. 4930hagley - is it my eyesight?  ;D |
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Post by ejparrott on Apr 4, 2013 12:27:12 GMT
RMES has now swapped from Southern Fed to NAME on a permanent basis now I think. As a result, I won't be charging for the Green books when they're issued, as we don't pay for them, and we won't be asking for a donation to cover the cost of the paperwork any more....because again, we don't have to pay for them now!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2013 13:55:31 GMT
RMES has now swapped from Southern Fed to NAME on a permanent basis now I think. As a result, I won't be charging for the Green books when they're issued, as we don't pay for them, and we won't be asking for a donation to cover the cost of the paperwork any more....because again, we don't have to pay for them now! ----------------------------------RESULT !!!----------------------- BOADICEA, I must learn to post first, THEN have a wee dram or two and not in the reverse order, eh ?? (Hic)  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2013 22:39:59 GMT
RMES has now swapped from Southern Fed to NAME on a permanent basis now I think. Just be aware that NAME has peculiar rules about how you number/identify your boilers (or at least they did when the Blue book was in force). Southern Fed makes no constraints, the number can be anything you like. |
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nonort
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If all the worlds a Stage someone's nicked the Horses
Posts: 279
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Post by nonort on Apr 15, 2013 16:41:23 GMT
I see no purpose in defecting to the NAME for the sake of a Green Book persay but the Southern Fed does seem to have let itself down on this whole matter. The Green Book will be the same in all of MELG affiliated Clubs/Societies. The problem has arisen by the individual Clubs/Societies having different ideas about what they have signed up to. Which should never have been the case if the consultation had been fully transparent this kind of thing should not have happened.
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Post by ejparrott on Apr 15, 2013 20:16:13 GMT
RMES has not defected on the basis of the green book, merely the fact that NAME does lots of things for us and has all the answers, whereas Southern Fed is completly the opposite.
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johnthepump
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Building 7 1/4"G Edward Thomas
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Post by johnthepump on Apr 26, 2013 21:27:21 GMT
In answer to Waggy's original question. The requirement to issue a copy of the green book as part of the WSE .
This is not mentioned in the green book, but is to found in the Southern Fed's information sheet No. 15 dated January 2013 paragraph 4. this info sheet was sent to our club Secretary. I hope this helps
Regards John.
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Tony K
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,574
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Post by Tony K on Apr 27, 2013 9:08:36 GMT
As always, GeorgeRay makes it clear. My feelings on the matter. ;D If you ignore the luvvy bits, it is surprising how much of it is relevant. Keep smiling! |
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??--- so what's wrong with a pdf download, maintained and updated by the issuing authority 
;D
