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Post by ron on Jan 14, 2007 17:02:48 GMT
Hi All
I was ordering up some materials when I came across one of life's great puzzles, so I thought I would ask if anyone on here knows; why is silver steel supplied in 13" lengths when most other stuff is in 12" lengths or the metric equivalent?
Ron
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Post by havoc on Jan 14, 2007 17:16:24 GMT
Guess: since 13"=330.2mm, they can get 3 pieces out of a meter lenght of rod (including saw width).
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Post by houstonceng on Jan 14, 2007 17:44:12 GMT
I was told way back when - - - that Silver Steel was 13" long because it was cut into lengths by a "grinding wheel" saw and, consequently, the heat generated hardened the end.
My "mentor" said you need to cut off about 0.5" from the end in order to discard the affected bit.
13" minus two bits of 0.5" gave a guaranrteed 12" of usable length.
Of course, this could just be an old machinist's tale put about to impress youngsters, but something tells me we wouldn't have been encouraged to waste material.
Perhaps, with more modern cut-off techniques the ends are no longer hard but, since 13" was the "standard" length when Silver Steel was first sold , it's still supplied in the same because that's what Grandfather used. AND. If it was good enough for him - - - - - -
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Post by alanstepney on Jan 14, 2007 20:05:26 GMT
Stubbs, the sole maker of silver steel (at least, they used to be) always sold it in 13" lengths, and I always understood the reason was as houstonceng said.
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Post by Shawki Shlemon on Jan 16, 2007 6:25:42 GMT
Every time that I get on this site I learn something new .That is why I love it .  |
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Post by ron on Jan 16, 2007 10:13:25 GMT
Very true Shawki, it's excellent.
Alan, I had never heard the expression 'silver steel' before I took up model engineering, at work it was always called Stubbs steel.
Ron
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Post by alanstepney on Jan 16, 2007 12:43:45 GMT
From memory, it was Stubbs themselves that called it silver steel. Cant be because of any silver content: it hasnt any. I can only assume that it was due to its colour, perhaps looking more "silver" than ordinary steel (Whatever the latter may be.)
Ok, heres another related question.
There used to be PS files, the initials standing for Peter Stubbs. They were highly regarded, cutting better and for longer than many other files. (I might still have one or two.)
Was Peter Stubbs the same Stubbs as Stubbs steel, a relative, or is it purely coincidence?
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Post by baggo on Jan 16, 2007 13:55:14 GMT
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Post by alanstepney on Jan 16, 2007 18:40:02 GMT
John,
Very interesting link.
Judging from that article, the PS files I have (assuming they havent gone astray in one of my moves) might be VERY old. I inherited them from an uncle, who. in turn, had inherited them from his father, so they probably date from the Victorian era.
Doesnt say if there is any link with Stubbs steel though.
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Post by baggo on Jan 16, 2007 19:47:15 GMT
Alan, managed to find the Peter Stubs website: www.peterstubs.com/ - About Sounds as though it could be the same company as they originated in Warrington where William Stubbs' factory was and originally made files John |
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Myford Matt
Statesman
There are two ways to run a railway, the Great Western way, and the wrong way.
Posts: 621
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Post by Myford Matt on Jan 16, 2007 20:10:27 GMT
I have always assumed (like most posters here) that 'Stubbs' had two 'b's.
I'm sure that's how it is usually written in ME and elsewhere - but the website is consistent and uses just one 'b'.
A small point I know
MM
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Post by Shawki Shlemon on Jan 17, 2007 5:41:59 GMT
Hi ron I knew about silver steel but the 13" was new to me .  |
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Post by ron on Jan 17, 2007 10:49:30 GMT
Shawki, is it 13" in OZ as well or is it a UK thing?
Ron
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2007 0:30:33 GMT
Hi
One of the metal suppliers at the ME exhibition told me silver steel was sold in 13" lengths so it was easy to distinguish it from ordinary BMS.
Regards
Trevor
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Post by Shawki Shlemon on Jan 18, 2007 3:21:43 GMT
From steel suppliers I have always got it in 18" and from model engineers suppliers is 300 mm . This has been my experience with it . What is it now ? I don't know !!!  |
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Post by houstonceng on Jan 18, 2007 22:27:33 GMT
Hi One of the metal suppliers at the ME exhibition told me silver steel was sold in 13" lengths so it was easy to distinguish it from ordinary BMS. Regards Trevor Not if you've got 13" of BMS left from two feet !  |
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John Lee
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Post by John Lee on Jan 19, 2007 5:10:38 GMT
Hi One of the metal suppliers at the ME exhibition told me silver steel was sold in 13" lengths so it was easy to distinguish it from ordinary BMS. Regards Trevor Not if you've got 13" of BMS left from two feet ! Which neatly leads on to another of lifes little mysteries. Short of trying to harden it, how do you distinguish between silver steel and mild steel. I see no difference in colour as Alan suggests and have been through the unfortunate experience of trying to use mild steel as a tool bit as a result. I keep it in seperate boxes now, but unless you are perfectly organised... Anybody know?? John |
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Post by ron on Jan 19, 2007 10:32:03 GMT
I've a stock of both and they are quite easy to tell apart, the silver steel is lighter coloured with a more silvery sheen to it and a much finer ground surface finish, don't know how easy it would be with ground mild steel though??
It might actually be the particular mild steel stock I have which is duller and greyer but it's obvious even from several feet away, it doesn't need close examination.
Ron
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John Lee
Part of the e-furniture
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Post by John Lee on Jan 19, 2007 18:38:17 GMT
I've a stock of both and they are quite easy to tell apart, the silver steel is lighter coloured with a more silvery sheen to it and a much finer ground surface finish, don't know how easy it would be with ground mild steel though?? It might actually be the particular mild steel stock I have which is duller and greyer but it's obvious even from several feet away, it doesn't need close examination. Ron I was actually talking about ground mild steel (although I was not clear about this Ron, I agree). Shiny, just like silver steel. I bought a distress sale lot of this a few years ago, a veritable pile of it, so do not need to buy any ordinary stuff, but I mixed up some bits as described before with sad results. Maybe my bad old eyes, but on looking I cannot tell one from the other. I seem to remember something about grinding spark colours from my apprentice days, you could distinguish high carbon steel, mild steel, stainless etc etc...... John |
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SteveW
Elder Statesman
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Post by SteveW on Jan 19, 2007 23:15:47 GMT
Guys,
You can easily distinguish the various steels using the grinder test.
Low carbon steel will produce primary sparks on (the usual careful) contact with the grinder's wheel. These are described as "short streaks, small leaves".
As the amount of carbon increases through to carbon tool steel you get "dull streaks, no leave, profuse sparks, very close". Essentially you get primary and secondary burst of sparks and it's just much prettier.
HSS get you "very faint red streaks, forked ends".
There's are more but you'll need to go buy "The Model Engineers Handbook" page 7.4 for more (usual disclaimer).
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