Gresley designs for 5" gauge

[teakfreak]

I'm starting to think about something to keep me occupied in retirement - it's a few years away yet but a man can dream, can't he! I'd like to build a Gresley 3 cylinder engine, preferably a B17 or D49 - does anyone know if commercial designs for these are available?

[Deleted]

Hi
Nice to hear that there is another Gresley fan on here.
Clarksons used to do a D49 in 5 inch gauge. If your lucky you may be able to find a set of drawings secondhand, likewise the castings.
If you can't get the castings you may be able to use parts from the designs that are available for example 'Doncaster' driving and coupled wheels, cylinders from perhaps A3 or V2, or if these are too big maybe the Enterprise V3 would be suitable. Parts that are unavailable could be fabricated.
The nearest Clarksons did to a B17 was a B2 in 31/2 inch, but if your a Gresley fan I don't think you'd approve of a Thompson rebuild, just look what he did to Great Northern and the P2
Hope this helps
Trevor

[Richardw]

Michael Breeze used to supply plans / castings for the B17 but he has sold the range to Blackgates.

As far as I know they intend to re-introduce the B17 into their range, if they have not already done so as my catalogue is nearly a year old.

[John Lee]

Just got a new catalogue and was in Blackgates yesterday. No they still have not done.

They promise a rather mouthwatering new list including all the Michael Breeze designs, and a 5" gauge GNR Large Atlantic ( a bigger and much more correct "Maisie" if you will) There is a 5 inch A1 before Thompson hacked it about from Michael Breeze available now.

You did not state your gauge preference, for now you can also get Mallard and Flying Scotsman in 3 1/2 from them if you want Gresley.

John

[teakfreak]

Thanks for the info on the B17 from Blackgates. Are the Michael Breeze designs OK? I know that Matrin Evans' B1 is quite a long way from being right, for example.

The only other problem seems to be that it is Blackgates! Took them nearly 4 months to supply the parts for my Sweet Pea tender although, as others have remarked, the quality of the iron castings was excellent.

[John Lee]

I came by, or rather bought at club auction a set of Michael Breeze drawings even though I have no intention of building. I just have not the time to do. But yes they are excellent. Expensive but detailed beyond belief, I suspect they are from works drawings and just scaled down and modified for practicality if was needed. Definately not a Martin Evans interpretation.

Blackgates. Hmmm. Yes they are very nice and helpful people, and if you personally call in they do their very best. The new owners have much ambition it seems (introducing a new range of super locos as an example) but they are I suppose hampered like all small businesses by funding. They are a "mom and pop" business compared with Reeves.

Hence your delay with their core "Sweet Pea" stuff I suppose. The old owner must have done good business with this. I am lucky enough to be close, so if its not in stock when I call in, I don't take the offer to order it.

But if we don't support the alternatives, there is Reeves with the same old stuff, moderate quality usually, expensive, where does this hobby go if you definately need castings for a project. Or won't go metric if you want tooling ;D

Regards,

John

[teakfreak]

That's good news about the drawings, sounds like a B17 could well be the way to go then.

I don't find tooling a problem - my local tool shop stocks number drills up to 60 and all imperial sizes, for example, as well as reamers etc.. As far as possible I prefer to fabricate components rather than use expensive castings, but it is frustrating when delays are so long for the items that really are best in casting form. Back in the early 80s I used to go to Reeves for my father who was building a Simplex and virtually everytning was available off the shelf then. I can't really understand why there should be such shortages and delays nowadays.

[maninshed]

My mate built Martin Evans V3 tank Enterprise which is fitted with the conji whatsit cated valve gear. There was a set of castings for this on ebay this week, just a thought if it was 3 cylinders you were after, nice engine too ran rather well as I remember. But I agree the B17 or the D49's are good looking engines.
Martyn.

[teakfreak]

Thought about the V1/3 but I like my Gresleys in Apple Green, and I don't think any of the 2-6-2Ts carried that. The B17 Footballer series with the LNER standard tenders and the D49s, with the same tender type, both looked very handsome - and the D49 is a bit simpler. However, I'm not sure if anyone now supplies the Clarkson castings.

I also like the V2, but I'm not sure how good the Matin Evans drawings for this one were.

[Laurie_B]

Just been looking at Blackgates Engineering advert in the latest Model Engineer,and under the 'Coming Soon' bit,they list the following in 3-1/2" G:
A1,B2 and V2.
In 5" G (for 'Coming Soon') they list:
B2,V2,A1,A3,P2,B17 and K5.
Possibly a case of "watch this space"!

[Richardw]

teakfreak said:

Thought about the V1/3 but I like my Gresleys in Apple Green, and I don't think any of the 2-6-2Ts carried that.

There was one V3 that did get LNER Apple Green, 7684 was painted in it in Sept 1946 and kept it for about 3 years although it changed from having LNER and 7684 on the tank side to having BRITISH RAILWAYS on the tank and 67684 on the bunker side during that time. There are a couple of pictures of it in Yeadons Register Vol. 16.

Richard

[silverfox]

Hi,
I have Breeze drawings for the B17. Have been in touch with a couple of other builders of the class, i understand there are 6 in total on the go and not one of them has been duplicated, so when they are all finished a B17 meet could be quite a show. My one is a Footballer with a GE tender( as i have short arms!!) Have also been to the NRM and got photocopies of the NB weigh book, it has drawings with simple dimensions of every part on the loco even down to the wool trimmings.

And while we are on the subject is there an idiot proof way of making sure all the horn blocks/axle boxes are square and dimensionally the same from each other, so the con rods don't bind?
I am still a rank amateur at this

[John Lee]

silverfox said:

And while we are on the subject is there an idiot proof way of making sure all the horn blocks/axle boxes are square and dimensionally the same from each other, so the con rods don't bind?
I am still a rank amateur at this

Workshop equipment permitting..here is the ideal route

Grab the frames. after the horn blocks are fitted, back to back in a mill, and finish them for size together.

Finish the axle boxes in pairs.. mark up.. hammer with number punches where they will go when finished.

But do not forget the driving and coupling pins, this is where it normally goes wrong. Accurate on size, do them again if half a thou off. Do a jig for placing them on your wheels, not time wasted.

Finally do the coupling rods, which is really the worst job. If its a bit tight all over just run it in. If it is very tight in places you can try running in, but it will be rattly soon, or if it will definately will not run along the bench you have ignored the above ;D

A crude engineers explanation, who has been accused of causing deaths at sea... off in a huff ;D

Regards,

John

[silverfox]

John,

After doing the back to back milling, i then put in the various spacers. Is it worth checking that the 'front eges of each hornblock are parallel and equidistant from the other two.( as they should be on each side ie A1/A2/A3 = B1/B2/B3 and from say the front edge of A1 to front edge of B3 is same as B1 to A3 and they form a square ,rather than a parallelogram otherwise the distances may be right but the axles are not running at 90 deg to the track but slightly off. Hope this makes sense without diagrams!

[John Lee]

Yes that makes sense.

What defines that your hornblocks are absolutely square to each other then is that your other frame components are accurate and square too (buffer beams, stretchers etc)

You only need to ensure that each opposing axlebox is square, the rest will take care of itself.

Do all the below with your frames laying on a proper surface plate, or a piece of thick plate glass which is an excellent and much cheaper substitute.

Often frames are designed to be screw assembled rather than riveted, so here is where you can fix any slight inaccuracies, as screws are a clearance fit. Put your buffer beams on, with the screws loose, get it square, then tighten up hard, checking as you tighten each screw. Then put in the stretchers and whatever else. Pop the holes in them from your pre-drilled frame holes. Get those to fit tight.

And then if you want to go back and do a "proper" job rivet up the buffer beams rather than use screws. Whenever you disasemble (to paint for example) it just has to go back square.

Regards,

John