Help with 'Speedy' valve gear and other issues...

[carbonet]

Dec 9, 2018 22:08:39 GMT Roger said:

Well, there's going to be moisture and oxygen in the atmosphere when you assemble the bare metal, so won't that potentially cause rust?

Definitely Not!! Rusting is a chemical reaction between oxygen and metal. Iron oxide is Fe2O3. How many mols of oxygen do you think that you can get trapped in the joint?. So, that gives you the answer.
Or you can look at it in the following way: Have you ever seen rust developing inside a totally hermetic can, regardless of the moisture or air that you got trapped in?. No rust whatsoever, right? So that gives you an answer too.

[carbonet]

Dec 10, 2018 10:38:22 GMT Roger said:

I suppose ships of old were riveted metal to metal and then painted, so presumably it wasn't a big issue for them or we'd know about it. I'm now convinced that this is the way forward. Much as I don't like the idea of bare metal in that situation, it would appear that you can exclude moisture and oxygen from the joint with paint.

I like to explore each issue before making a decision because far too much is done without the evidence to back it up in my opinion. I don't think it hurts to ask the questions and bring together all of the experiences we can draw upon.

No problem with oxygen (air) trapped in the joint. Seriously. Rust doesn’t work like that. It’s an /ongoing/ chemical reaction between two substances. That tiny amount of trapped oxygen in the joint will eventually react with a even tinier amount of iron, in a totally unnoticeable way, and that oxygen in the joint will be gone forever, provided that the joint is perfectly sealed, that is.
Furthermore, iron oxide has a smaller density than iron, it takes more physical space than the original iron. If the joint is not totally sealed but perfectly riveted, and some rust /starts/ to develop inside the joint, the iron oxide will automatically fill the joint, thus creating a seal, to prevent further oxygen interchange, and rust will stop at a very early stage, often visually unnoticeably.

[Roger]

Here are some of the parts for the front and rear buffer steps, but there's a problem. I don't know what I was thinking of, but I didn't really pay much attention as to how these parts will all need to be held together for Silver Soldering. I kind of imagined I'd TIG weld some tacks, but thinking about it in more detail made me realise that wasn't going to work.

So I'd left the RH most profile just as it stopped and turned off the machine last night. I added some slots and tabs to make this a viable assembly, but that meant adding 1mm wide slots to the parts already machined. Hmmmm...

I'd had to move the sheet over to clear the clamps and so the only image left true to the machine axes was the one I'd just finished. I downloaded the profile I'd just finished and set the DRO to the last position in the program and machined the slot. That's why you can see the slots in the middle of that RH image but not on the one to its left.

So here I'm using a couple of M1.4 screws in the holes that are furthest apart to rest a small HSS square tool bit against for clocking. Having nudged the work so it was square again, I loaded the drilling program for that image and jogged the X/Y position so that the drill dropped into the first hole without deflecting in either axis. Then I set the DRO to the hole coordinate.

Finally, that meant that I could machine the slot in the first image, but also all of the others. That's because I know that I didn't move the Y-axis between images, and I used whole numbers of millimetres between them. Although I couldn't remember the offset, it was pretty easy to see when it was right by moving the DRO 1mm at a time.

20181223_114000 by Roger Froud, on Flickr

Here are the replacement parts for the narrow ones in that first picture, these have got tags that are 1.2mm long so they protrude 0.2mm beyond the back of the sheet they mate with.

20181223_203633 by Roger Froud, on Flickr

And here some of those are cleaned up. The 1mm slots are a nice fit on the thickness of the material. The tags will need the ends rounding to get them to fit, but that's ok since I want to fill the slot completely with Steel if possible. 

20181223_210301 by Roger Froud, on Flickr

[Roger]

So here we are over five years into the build, my first tentative post was on 31st Oct 2013!

And what a journey so far. I decided in the course of one evening to build SPEEDY because I really liked the look of the silhouette in the Reeves Catalogue and it seemed about the right size. Yes folks, that's the deep level of research I did, but it wasn't really on a whim. I'd started a ROB ROY at school and always thought I'd either finish it, or make something a bit bigger.

I'd read some books as a teenager, Shop Shed and Road and such like but a huge amount of Engineering water had passed under the bridge in the intervening years. A lifetime of messing about in the workshop both for business and pleasure has given me reason to question everything and to take nothing at face value. I couldn't believe that virtually nothing seemed to have changed in 40 years. Obviously, I didn't know much about Model Engineering, but it's just Engineering. Some new skills were going to be required, I'd never seriously tackled Silver Soldering, 3D machining or TIG welding, and I know little about painting at this moment too.

That first post was the best thing I've done in a decade, it's opened the door to a whole new world of new friends and a sense of community. That was completely unexpected. My experience with Forums to that point had only been to dip in to get a quick answer to a specific problem and then to leave it be. It didn't quite work out that way this time!

So my heartfelt thanks go to all of my friends here, many who I've met and others I hope to in the future. Your help and encouragement have transformed what was going to be a simple and quick build into something I'm much more proud of, and it's all because of you. I wish you all a wonderful Christmas and I'd like to thank you for joining me on this engaging adventure with all its twists and turns.

Roger

[JonL]

I completely agree Roger. It sounds a little over dramatic but losing my grandfather for me meant losing the only person I knew who was a like minded engineer. Then I come on here and suddenly I don't feel quite so alone...

Here is to a 2019 full of support and encouragement from like minded souls who all just want the same thing at the end of the day; to enjoy a hobby understood by very few but utterly engaging and rewarding to those who have a passion for it.

[mbrown]

Like many "journeys in life", one dimension is where it takes you , the other is what it inspires others to do.

I think you score exceptionally highly on both counts Roger!

Best wishes for Christmas and I look forward to many more of your posts in 2019!

Malcolm

[dscott]

So the secrets out at last to why LBSC did the same buffer beam front and back?
Of course so for 50 years we didn't have to model these rear steps!!!
Currently popping all the scale holes from back to front on my Chassis.
I only did a few as I am inside on the angled drawing board and it it quite noisy!
This I have found an ideal set up also for marking them out. Spray primer, stick on
white labels and mark out... Double check and score with something like an old
School compass point. Cross the Tees and the point just flows into the cross.
BANG!!! Was getting on well to.
Well Merry Christmas to everyone and do stagger to work something off in Various
Workshops. It will soon be Ally Pally Exhibition!!!
Love from
David and Lily.

[delaplume]

Hi Roger,

I'm glad you stayed the course and didn't let those earlier experiences elsewhere put you off----------Remember our first conversations when we toured Bridgnorth MPD taking photos of 1501 ??

It was an eye-opener for me also as I hadn't encountered "Microns" in the normal course of a working day on 3205, Hagley Hall, et al.

Your machining parts "on a stick" is a classic Roger-ism (?) .....

Keep on "Keeping on" in 2019 and I look forward to your much-improved Speedy's first run...

seasons greetings from}--


Alan & Joyce...

[don9f]

May I also add my thanks for such an entertaining thread and looking forward to more in 2019.

Merry Christmas Roger and all the best.

Regards Don

[Roger]

Dec 24, 2018 17:20:06 GMT don9f said:

May I also add my thanks for such an entertaining thread and looking forward to more in 2019.

Merry Christmas Roger and all the best.

Regards Don

Thanks Don,
One of the highlights of the year has been your Signal project which I hope I'll see in person one day. I particularly like projects that have a mix of mechanical and electronic elements, and your workmanship is superb.

[don9f]

Hi Roger, that’s very good to hear, I’m pleased that it caused some interest as it’s obviously a thread that not everyone would follow....Thank You very much!

I think that when completed, it will be a bit too cumbersome and fragile to carry round exhibitions to show you like you’ve done with some of your work!
If ever you are in the vicinity of the ST10 postcode though, you would be more than welcome to call in. The signal will be kept at home when it’s not in use at the track, which is not far from here at Butterley Derbyshire.

Cheers Don

[terrier060]

Dec 23, 2018 22:02:51 GMT JonL said:

I completely agree Roger. It sounds a little over dramatic but losing my grandfather for me meant losing the only person I knew who was a like minded engineer. Then I come on here and suddenly I don't feel quite so alone...

Here is to a 2019 full of support and encouragement from like minded souls who all just want the same thing at the end of the day; to enjoy a hobby understood by very few but utterly engaging and rewarding to those who have a passion for it.

So much of what you and Roger above have said applies to me also.  I have only met Roger and Julian in person but I hope to meet more of you in 2019.  The help and inspiration you have all given has been greater than words can say and from model makers worldwide - it is so easy to forget that many are overseas.  I am sure a lot of us work alone with our models and this Forum link like minds.  I would never have gone CNC if it had not been for Roger, although the seeds were sown long ago when I drew all my drawings in 2D CAD and thought what a waste.  My original intention was to publish the drawings in ME as I used to publish quite a bit when Ted Joliffe was editor.  But here it is so much better because you see the model being produced and we are not afraid to admit our mistakes which can be so helpful to others.  These models are under construction, not just a design in a magazine that may not ever have been produced by the author.  Then I saw what Roger was doing and realised that these 2D drawings could easily be turned into 3D and then using a very well thought-out piece of software turned into G-code.  It is still frightening watching the tool coming down to the work  and wondering if it is going to stop or bury itself into the machine vice - that manual element is still strong and I never feel as in control as I do machining manually, but the new challenge has awakened my interest in the project, and seeing what the rest of you are doing even if they are not 'Terriers' keeps me motivated.  

Then there is Julian who I know I can rely on with the literature.  I would have made a lot of mistakes with the Terrier plates without his input.  At first I thought - sod it - does it matter if they are not quite right.  But he persisted and although I had made a perfect replica of the present works plates on Fenchurch - he said "they are poor reproductions".  My immediate reaction was **it are they really - well at least they are an accurate copy of what is on Fenchurch now.  Then I thought - well what happened to the originals?
In the end it is a compromise, as there appears to be no original to copy, so one has to do ones best with the info available.  Bob and others have been a great help with paint and livery and I shall be following Roger's thread because I know that he is also learning this new trade.  If all fails, my brother used to spray Morgans and should be able to give me some tips!

Happy 2019 to all and I am looking forward to more inspiration.  More worryingly - what are you going to do Roger when you finish Speedy - we must all get him interested in another juicy project so that he stays on the Forum!
Ed

[Roger]

I set this up yesterday so I could run it unattended while we had our Christmas festivities. You can see the mini mountain of swarf it generated when left to its own devices. It doesn't seem to mind. The plate for the hooks is 5mm deep but the cutter is only a 2.5mm 2-flute so it's a bit deep to machine without clearing a channel for the swarf to go. So for the roughing cut I used the step over parameter to do two passes at each depth with an additional 0.5mm width on the cut. It obviously takes a lot longer, but that didn't matter today.

I'll finish the hook shaping by hand although I might machine the detail for the link slot since that's a bit more awkward to file. It will need a little fixture to hold it so I can do both sides though.


20181225_230421 by Roger Froud, on Flickr

[steamer5]

Hi Rodger,
Looks good!
As a thought can you sort out you vacuum cleaner, with attached cyclone, to turn on / off at intervals to remove the swarf?

Merry Xmas & have a great New Year.

Cheers Kerrin

[Roger]

Dec 26, 2018 5:44:53 GMT steamer5 said:

Hi Rodger,
Looks good!
As a thought can you sort out you vacuum cleaner, with attached cyclone, to turn on / off at intervals to remove the swarf?

Merry Xmas & have a great New Year.

Cheers Kerrin

Hi Kerrin,
Now that's a cunning idea, I hadn't thought of that possibility. I'm on the cusp of buying a 3D printer, so I could make some sort of attachment to collect the swarf. I'm thinking of ways to deliver small shots of oil to the cutter too, so maybe a combined arrangement might be possible? Watch this space!

Merry Christmas to you too, and thanks for your enthusiastic support, it's much appreciated.

[johnthepump]

Dec 26, 2018 8:14:55 GMT Roger said:

Dec 26, 2018 5:44:53 GMT steamer5 said:

Hi Rodger,
Looks good!
As a thought can you sort out you vacuum cleaner, with attached cyclone, to turn on / off at intervals to remove the swarf?

Merry Xmas & have a great New Year.

Cheers Kerrin

Hi Kerrin,
Now that's a cunning idea, I hadn't thought of that possibility. I'm on the cusp of buying a 3D printer, so I could make some sort of attachment to collect the swarf. I'm thinking of ways to deliver small shots of oil to the cutter too, so maybe a combined arrangement might be possible? Watch this space!

Merry Christmas to you too, and thanks for your enthusiastic support, it's much appreciated.

Hi Roger, Look forward to reading your thread every day always interesting. With regard to cutter lubrication and the requirement to supply only very small amounts. I tried all sorts of things over the years and what I have found works well is a controlled gravity feed system. Most of the time I use air through a needle valve and delivered direct to the side of the cutter using the plastic straw from a used can of WD40 (other straw are available).

This air method blows the chips away from the cutter in a gentle manner and is operated using M08 and M09, the whole system uses 4mm piping. When I need to to use an oil lub, I change the needle valve assembly to another one fed from a baked bean can stood on the top of the mill column the oil is turned on/off via an air operated valve which is supplied via a 2 way change over tap which supplies the air which is under the control of M08/M09.

As a by the tap would have been one that would have been originally intended for the Mosquito.

06.11.20217 by John The Pump, on Flickr

In the picture to the right can be seen an air mist oiler that didn't work well so it is only there as a mounting bracket to support the change over tap, in the view the system is set for air on the cutter, the oil on cutter needle valve unit can be seen hanging to the right of the column by the air controlled oil valve and the oil supply from the can can just be seen at the top of the picture. Inside the can is a filter to stop particle blocking the needle valve.

28.08.2016 by John The Pump, on Flickr

Here is a second photo I found showing things from a different angle. Hope this helps Wishing all the best for the New Year.

Best Regards John.

[Roger]

Hi John,
Thanks for those kind words, I'm pleased you still find it interesting.

I like your oiling setup, that's certainly a possibility although at the moment I don't have a pressure vessel for the compressor which is a Hydrovane type.

At the moment I'm thinking along the lines of delivering a short shot of cutting oil every so often using one of the mechanical lubricators I made and a snail cam to prime and release the spring loaded plunger. That would be operated from a small geared motor with adjustable speed and with an adjustable stroke. All just ideas running through my mind at the moment.
The straw for delivery is a neat idea, but you can also get blunt syringe needles and pipette tips through eBay which are possible alternatives.

Anyway, it's all good fun chewing over the pros and cons of these ideas.

Best Wishes and I hope to see you on the IOW again this year, one of my favourite days out.

[andyhigham]

If you use compressed air to blow the swarf away, you could feed the air through an air tool lubricator cotaining cutting oil
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Air-Line-Lubricator-units-for-air-systems-and-air-tools-Valves-Etc/121205511957?hash=item1c38695715:m:mS0xn6HDBf0qyf_BgZA6d1A:rk:2:pf:0

[Roger]

Dec 26, 2018 17:59:40 GMT andyhigham said:

If you use compressed air to blow the swarf away, you could feed the air through an air tool lubricator cotaining cutting oil
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Air-Line-Lubricator-units-for-air-systems-and-air-tools-Valves-Etc/121205511957?hash=item1c38695715:m:mS0xn6HDBf0qyf_BgZA6d1A:rk:2:pf:0

Hi Andy,
This is true, and I have one of those lubricators. However, I'm not keen on having compressors running or cutting in and out all day, just as I won't have a vacuum on all the time to clear swarf.

I run the machine for hundreds of hours in a very quiet neighbourhood where noise really carries and would be noticeable. My stealth machining is nearly silent so that I'm not alerting the neighbours to the amount of work I'm putting through the machine.

[andyhigham]

Piston compressors are noisy, especially direct drive ones. Hydrovane compressors are virtually silent but costly