Help with 'Speedy' valve gear and other issues...

[Roger]

Jan 7, 2019 10:19:56 GMT mr swarf said:

Regarding the use of a clutch for lubricator drives, don't be tempted by the ones on ebay for a pound or so. Poor quality & accuracy unless you get lucky. I find a branded one is much better quality and a better fit on silver steel. As others have suggested, its a good idea to use an O ring to prevent steam oil creeping along the shaft in to the clutch.
Paul

Hi Paul,
A quick look at the picture of one of those on eBay put me off straight away. I bought mine from a bearing company, they were pretty expensive, but there's no point in taking chances on something that important.

[Roger]

This is how the steps and the end of the brake rod looks on 1501.

IMG_1427 by Roger Froud, on Flickr

I've modified the end of the brake shaft to make the reduced diameter shorter and add an M3 thread...

20190107_232411 by Roger Froud, on Flickr

... which looks like this as a trial assembly. Fortunately, the care taken to make the parts to the drawing has paid off and it all goes together without having to bend or ease anything.

20190107_233048 by Roger Froud, on Flickr

The step is now really strong, you can pull and push on it and the brake shaft supports it exactly as it does on 1501. That's very pleasing, it's not easy to get sheet metal work that accurate.

20190107_233105 by Roger Froud, on Flickr

This is the small bearing for the drain cock bottom pivot at the cab end. It's made from PB102 so it's strong even though it's very small. The burrs are easy enough to tidy up with needle files.

20190107_195604 by Roger Froud, on Flickr

I've clocked this up so that I can turn the back with the grooving/parting tool then part it off.

20190107_200632 by Roger Froud, on Flickr

That looks like this when it's cleaned up...

20190107_202751 by Roger Froud, on Flickr

... and on the RH frame. The bolts are M1.6

20190107_204720 by Roger Froud, on Flickr

[Roger]

I've been searching the forum for drawings and designs for whistles. There's a lot of text, and several tables, but no drawings.
Does anyone have dimensioned drawings of a whistle that they know works?

[johnthepump]

Hi Roger,
I have all three sizes that A.E. Grimmett used to make. If you PM your address I will pop them in the post. You can then try them and take measurements and return them to me when you visit the IWMES in the spring.

Regards John.

[Lisa]

Here's a nice big four-chime for between the frames, Roger.


Link to larger image: m-e.venomousrose.com/images/ruby-whistle.jpg

Or you could design your own, there's a spreadsheet for calculating the dimensions for a given note: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Rlt4_kktWus9vV8bZ6vpnVBY6FAWU82JoK66nphwslQ

[Roger]

Jan 8, 2019 8:45:03 GMT johnthepump said:

Hi Roger,
I have all three sizes that A.E. Grimmett used to make. If you PM your address I will pop them in the post. You can then try them and take measurements and return them to me when you visit the IWMES in the spring.

Regards John.

PM sent

[Roger]

Jan 8, 2019 8:50:22 GMT Lisa said:

Here's a nice big four-chime for between the frames, Roger.


Link to larger image: m-e.venomousrose.com/images/ruby-whistle.jpg

Or you could design your own, there's a spreadsheet for calculating the dimensions for a given note: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Rlt4_kktWus9vV8bZ6vpnVBY6FAWU82JoK66nphwslQ

Hi Lisa,
Thanks for that. What's the purpose of a chime whistle compared to a single tone one? 1501 has two whistles, so I'm wondering if I should be making two single tone ones instead?

[Lisa]

In sound terms it's like two people harmonising versus a solo, or playing two keys at once on a piano; it gives a much richer sound, and can also seem louder at the same decibel level (important, for an audible warning device).
As for the purpose of a multi-chime whistle, rather than two or more single chime whistles, I'd imagine it just comes down to less parts and simpler plumbing, at the expense of a little more complexity in making the whistle bell.

[Cro]

They make a lovely sound compared to most "squeakers".

if you head to 2:17 on this video you can hear a lovely chime on Camelot. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx_bBXiDGqs

Adam

[JonL]

I bought the copy of Model Engineer with the Chime whistle, would that help? I've not heard it work.

I'm tempted to have a go at making one by drilling three holes in a triangle in a piece of brass and then machining a groove round the outside to give me a start of the fipple. I can't describe it very well but I'm going to give it a go soon and see how it comes out.

[Roger]

Jan 8, 2019 11:57:11 GMT JonL said:

I bought the copy of Model Engineer with the Chime whistle, would that help? I've not heard it work.

I'm tempted to have a go at making one by drilling three holes in a triangle in a piece of brass and then machining a groove round the outside to give me a start of the fipple. I can't describe it very well but I'm going to give it a go soon and see how it comes out.

Any drawings are welcome, I'm sure to make a hybrid of several of them...

[mbrown]

For a GWR loco you need two separate whistles really - the normal, fairly high pitched whistle, and the deeper toned brake whistle, used for signalling for the guard of a loose coupled train to apply the van brake (maybe for other things too).

I'm not musical enough to tell you the notes involved, but you should be able to play "Ilkley Moor Ba'ht 'at" on them....

I don't think I have ever seen (heard) a model GWR loco with both!

Malcolm

[jon38r80]

I thought that Jim and Doubletop on here had quite a good spreadheet and experiments with pitch on here in a thread called 'whistles(again)' but then not having made one myself I dont know if the information would help you come upo with one of the right pitch in the space you have available

[Cro]

Jan 8, 2019 13:02:57 GMT mbrown said:

I don't think I have ever seen (heard) a model GWR loco with both!

Malcolm

I think thats all about to change! 

[Roger]

Jan 8, 2019 13:04:14 GMT jon38r80 said:

I thought that Jim and Doubletop on here had quite a good spreadheet and experiments with pitch on here in a thread called 'whistles(again)' but then not having made one myself I dont know if the information would help you come upo with one of the right pitch in the space you have available

I did find that thread, but there are no accompanying drawings to show what the figures refer to.

[barlowworks]

I've sent you a PM.

Mike

[Roger]

Jan 8, 2019 13:37:29 GMT Cro said:

Jan 8, 2019 13:02:57 GMT mbrown said:

I don't think I have ever seen (heard) a model GWR loco with both!

Malcolm

I think thats all about to change! 

Challenge accepted...

[delaplume]

The higher pitch is the "Service" whistle and the lower is the "Emergency" ( sometimes known as the Crow) whistle....I'm guessing that you'll need some sort of resonator chamber to get the notes lower than the scale whistle will want to sound at ??

[jon38r80]

Whilst incapacitated about 18 months agoI was reading this forum and others and found the design of whistles was a bone of contention, how to get a pitch from a model that approximated to the sound a full size loco makes. I came across a document entitled 'basic hooter whistle' by someonecalled Johan Liljencrants which doesnt have a drawing to make from but does have a diagram explaining critical dimensions. I have no idea where I found it but for some reason kept a copy which I could email to you if you like. its a pdf. it has a reference to a yahoo steam whistles group . ( havent checked if it still exists) It has links to sound clips but im not sure they work( they dont from an Ipad.
the document is a bit too technical for me but reminds me of college lessons where the sound made by blowing across a tube is altered by the length of the standing wave made in the bell chamber. (why a civil engineer needed to know that I dont know) it might be of interest/help even if it doesnt give you all the information you need.

[Roger]

Jan 8, 2019 18:00:55 GMT jon38r80 said:

Whilst incapacitated about 18 months agoI was reading this forum and others and found the design of whistles was a bone of contention, how to get a pitch from a model that approximated to the sound a full size loco makes. I came across a document entitled 'basic hooter whistle' by someonecalled Johan Liljencrants which doesnt have a drawing to make from but does have a diagram explaining critical dimensions. I have no idea where I found it but for some reason kept a copy which I could email to you if you like. its a pdf. it has a reference to a yahoo steam whistles group . ( havent checked if it still exists) It has links to sound clips but im not sure they work( they dont from an Ipad.
the document is a bit too technical for me but reminds me of college lessons where the sound made by blowing across a tube is altered by the length of the standing wave made in the bell chamber. (why a civil engineer needed to know that I dont know) it might be of interest/help even if it doesnt give you all the information you need.

Hi Jon,
Yes, I'd be interested to read that. I'll PM you my email address.
Roger