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Post by Roger on Jan 8, 2019 20:17:42 GMT
Jon's above mentioned paper describes a whistle that is essentially two completely separate parts. Instead of having a cutout in the side, the cutout effectively goes all the way round. I suppose this it similar to the whistle on the roof of 1501. The two parts are either connected with a central support or a rather ugly outer frame to do the same job.
Plenty to think over. The claim is that they are much louder if you have the whole of the diameter contributing to the noise, and that makes sense.
Anyway, on another subject, Flickr have just locked the uploads to my account, so I've created a new one using my Wife's email address, so Flickr can whistle too! My account showed 1.7% used out of the 1Tbyte they said we could all have. Hardly taking advantage!
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,793
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Post by mbrown on Jan 8, 2019 20:36:13 GMT
I tried making a whistle with the "bell" separate from the mouthpiece, all mounted on a central spindle. Like you, I figured it might be louder than the usual sort, and I also thought it would be easier to tune it by screwing the bell up and down the spindle.
Apart from the fact that the steam entry becomes a good deal more complicated because the main spindle screws into the centre of the bottom section (that can be overcome) I found that keeping the two sections strictly concentric without making the spindle very bulky was quite difficult - the slightest knock and they went out of line and then there was no decent sound.
In practice, there seemed to be only one position of the bell on the spindle which gave a decent sound - it was much more sensitive than the usual sort of whistle which can be made "acceptable" easily, even though "perfect" is harder to achieve.
This was a 1/2" dia whistle - it might be easier if you went bigger.
Malcolm
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Post by Oily Rag on Jan 8, 2019 21:16:43 GMT
I recognise that Dick McKenna drawing, I have that one as well and my plan is to make this for my JJ 060 one day. They sound nice not like some that squeak as if you had steeped on Lorrikeet's toes :-)
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Post by Roger on Jan 8, 2019 23:23:47 GMT
I tried making a whistle with the "bell" separate from the mouthpiece, all mounted on a central spindle. Like you, I figured it might be louder than the usual sort, and I also thought it would be easier to tune it by screwing the bell up and down the spindle. Apart from the fact that the steam entry becomes a good deal more complicated because the main spindle screws into the centre of the bottom section (that can be overcome) I found that keeping the two sections strictly concentric without making the spindle very bulky was quite difficult - the slightest knock and they went out of line and then there was no decent sound. In practice, there seemed to be only one position of the bell on the spindle which gave a decent sound - it was much more sensitive than the usual sort of whistle which can be made "acceptable" easily, even though "perfect" is harder to achieve. This was a 1/2" dia whistle - it might be easier if you went bigger. Malcolm That's good to know Malcolm, I was wondering about how practical they are. I guess there's no reason why the whistle couldn't be made with slots like a conventional one, but with say three of them, leaving less material to hold the top section, while still giving more area? |
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Jan 9, 2019 1:25:34 GMT
I tried making a whistle with the "bell" separate from the mouthpiece, all mounted on a central spindle. Like you, I figured it might be louder than the usual sort, and I also thought it would be easier to tune it by screwing the bell up and down the spindle. Apart from the fact that the steam entry becomes a good deal more complicated because the main spindle screws into the centre of the bottom section (that can be overcome) I found that keeping the two sections strictly concentric without making the spindle very bulky was quite difficult - the slightest knock and they went out of line and then there was no decent sound. In practice, there seemed to be only one position of the bell on the spindle which gave a decent sound - it was much more sensitive than the usual sort of whistle which can be made "acceptable" easily, even though "perfect" is harder to achieve. This was a 1/2" dia whistle - it might be easier if you went bigger. Malcolm That's good to know Malcolm, I was wondering about how practical they are. I guess there's no reason why the whistle couldn't be made with slots like a conventional one, but with say three of them, leaving less material to hold the top section, while still giving more area? Hi Roger I've sent you a PM. There is no advantage in making a separate bell as described, and the big weakness is as Malcolm describes. The note (which is G-sharp for a GWR service whistle, and D-sharp for the brake whistle) depends on the internal length above the top of the mouth, and the volume depends on the diameter of the bell tube. The mouth itself has no effect as long as it is the correct area and shape (not arched). For a typical whistle with a 180 degree cut out of the tube for the mouth aperture, the correct height is half the internal diameter of the tube. Personally I now divide the aperture into two 90degree segments with a central web for extra rigidity to maintain the alignment, which is critical. HTH Gary |
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Lisa
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Post by Lisa on Jan 9, 2019 3:42:46 GMT
I recognise that Dick McKenna drawing, I have that one as well and my plan is to make this for my JJ 060 one day. They sound nice not like some that squeak as if you had steeped on Lorrikeet's toes :-) Yeah, that's the loco; this was on dad's switcher. I've seen that whistle soothe a crying baby to sleep! |
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johnthepump
Part of the e-furniture
Building 7 1/4"G Edward Thomas
Posts: 494 
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Post by johnthepump on Jan 9, 2019 9:23:35 GMT
The higher pitch is the "Service" whistle and the lower is the "Emergency" ( sometimes known as the Crow) whistle....I'm guessing that you'll need some sort of resonator chamber to get the notes lower than the scale whistle will want to sound at ?? There is a chapter on whistles in LBSC's shop shed and road including an extra deep note whistle. regards John. |
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,990
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Post by JonL on Jan 9, 2019 10:14:21 GMT
That's another one I've been tempted to make. I know its early days for such things but sometimes you need a break from the project in hand!
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Post by Roger on Jan 9, 2019 10:44:56 GMT
The higher pitch is the "Service" whistle and the lower is the "Emergency" ( sometimes known as the Crow) whistle....I'm guessing that you'll need some sort of resonator chamber to get the notes lower than the scale whistle will want to sound at ?? There is a chapter on whistles in LBSC's shop shed and road including an extra deep note whistle. regards John. Thanks for that John, I think I've got a copy of that somewhere. |
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Jan 10, 2019 0:24:37 GMT
The higher pitch is the "Service" whistle and the lower is the "Emergency" ( sometimes known as the Crow) whistle....I'm guessing that you'll need some sort of resonator chamber to get the notes lower than the scale whistle will want to sound at ?? There is a chapter on whistles in LBSC's shop shed and road including an extra deep note whistle. regards John. Like a lot of LBSC's work that chapter is a little outmoded and not much science behind it. His whistles will almost certainly make a decent noise, but they are not 'state of the art' and the note will be unpredictable without careful tuning, as he admits himself. -Gary |
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Post by Roger on Jan 10, 2019 7:03:09 GMT
There is a chapter on whistles in LBSC's shop shed and road including an extra deep note whistle. regards John. Like a lot of LBSC's work that chapter is a little outmoded and not much science behind it. His whistles will almost certainly make a decent noise, but they are not 'state of the art' and the note will be unpredictable without careful tuning, as he admits himself. -Gary Fair enough. I did notice there's a style in Martin Evans book 'Manual of Model Steam Locomotive Construction' (with the inscription To Roger from Mum & Dad Christmas 1973) on page 135 that he calls a Deep-Note whistle. In that design, it's a standard whistle but with the addition of a large diameter sounding chamber to one side, fed from steam via a hole on the side of the small whistle. As with much of that book, it gives a taste of what's out there but with little really useful information about it. He fudges it by saying the sizes need to be found by experiment. |
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Post by Doug on Jan 10, 2019 12:54:37 GMT
Just found an old police whistle in my great granddads old locomotive (3.5” Maisie) works perfectly lovely sound, funny but a good bit of lateral thinking
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JonL
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Posts: 2,990
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Post by JonL on Jan 10, 2019 13:15:57 GMT
Funny you say that, experimenting last night I used the airline to blow 90psi into a WW2 aircrew whistle. Shrill doesn't even begin to describe it. My ears were ringing for about two minutes afterwards.
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Lisa
Statesman
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Post by Lisa on Jan 10, 2019 13:19:29 GMT
Just found an old police whistle in my great granddads old locomotive (3.5” Maisie) works perfectly lovely sound, funny but a good bit of lateral thinking Dad's first loco, a 3½" gauge QR B12, had a scout whistle soft soldered to a union. It was a bit shrill, but worked fine on steam... I suspect I've still got it in a box somewhere actually. |
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
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Post by mbrown on Jan 10, 2019 22:28:19 GMT
I used a Scout whistle on my Bagnall - following LBSC's recommendation in The Live Steam Book. It works fine on anything over about 60psi but tails off rapidly if pressure falls any lower.
I looked for another when thinking about a whistle for the BMR loco, but they seem much scarcer these days.
Malcolm
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
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Post by jma1009 on Jan 10, 2019 23:50:28 GMT
Pete - Doubletop - provided an excellent spread sheet and much commentary on miniature whistle design last year.
Well worth looking at again.
Cheers,
Julian
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dscott
Elder Statesman
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Post by dscott on Jan 10, 2019 23:50:58 GMT
Now after all the wonderful electronics of the Weigh in. The way to a perfect pitch is to borrow the sound card technology from the O Gauge Boys and Girls and do it with a wisp of Steam issued from the right place and a micro switch behind that activates the whistle stored in the little black box! 2 micro speakers on the driving trolley and we are off to a winner?
David and Lily.
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JonL
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WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,990
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Post by JonL on Jan 11, 2019 7:00:09 GMT
Now after all the wonderful electronics of the Weigh in. The way to a perfect pitch is to borrow the sound card technology from the O Gauge Boys and Girls and do it with a wisp of Steam issued from the right place and a micro switch behind that activates the whistle stored in the little black box! 2 micro speakers on the driving trolley and we are off to a winner?
I can't quite bring myself to do it... I'm sure it would give a great result, but where do we draw the line? I reckon an electric motor in the driving car and we wouldn't even need to get steam up...
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Post by Roger on Jan 11, 2019 7:27:55 GMT
Pete - Doubletop - provided an excellent spread sheet and much commentary on miniature whistle design last year. Well worth looking at again. Cheers, Julian Hi Julian, I did mention that I'd seen that thread, but there were no accompanying diagrams to show that the dimensions referred to. Maybe that's obvious to some, but not to me. I'm a pictures person, not a numbers one. |
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Post by Roger on Jan 11, 2019 7:29:27 GMT
Now after all the wonderful electronics of the Weigh in. The way to a perfect pitch is to borrow the sound card technology from the O Gauge Boys and Girls and do it with a wisp of Steam issued from the right place and a micro switch behind that activates the whistle stored in the little black box! 2 micro speakers on the driving trolley and we are off to a winner? David and Lily. Hi David, It's an interesting electronic project, but not the way I'd want to do it on a locomotive, even though it would probably give the most authentic effect. It's got to be steam I'm afraid. |
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