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Post by Roger on Nov 6, 2019 22:30:44 GMT
These need a little finishing off, but basically they're about done. 20191106_222156 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The bottom of the coupler in the Pannier Tanks is going to be a bit fiddly to get a standard sized spanner onto, so I thought I'd make a double ended slimline one which has both 15 and 7.5 degree canted ends. The one for the top doesn't need to be special, but I thought I'd just make a small one to go in the kit. 20191106_120559 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The nut only needs to be nipped up, so these don't need to be strong. They're made from 4mm Gauge Plate though, so they're pretty strong anyway. 20191106_222144 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
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twombo
Seasoned Member
Posts: 119
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Post by twombo on Nov 6, 2019 23:40:28 GMT
Reminds me of Spanner for adjusting SU. Carbs.
Roger, I drilled a hole in mine, and put them on my key ring!
People ask “what are those”?
I Say ,” Jet Fettlers!”
I”ll get my Coat!
Mick
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Post by delaplume on Nov 7, 2019 3:04:04 GMT
These need a little finishing off, but basically they're about done. 20191106_222156 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The bottom of the coupler in the Pannier Tanks is going to be a bit fiddly to get a standard sized spanner onto, so I thought I'd make a double ended slimline one which has both 15 and 7.5 degree canted ends. The one for the top doesn't need to be special, but I thought I'd just make a small one to go in the kit. 20191106_120559 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The nut only needs to be nipped up, so these don't need to be strong. They're made from 4mm Gauge Plate though, so they're pretty strong anyway. 20191106_222144 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr There you are Roger..you are getting more "Railway-ised" by the minute........I know Swindon made a great deal of their own tools and I suspect the other railway companies did the same, to a lesser or greater degree..........Big Boy's Meccanno stuff !!
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Post by delaplume on Nov 7, 2019 3:15:34 GMT
Reminds me of Spanner for adjusting SU. Carbs. Roger, I drilled a hole in mine, and put them on my key ring! People ask “what are those”? I Say ,” Jet Fettlers!” I”ll get my Coat! Mick Back in the 1960's wasn't there a Rock & Roll group based at RAF Coltishall known as Jet Fettlers & the Lightnings ??......... Pass me my coat on the way, Mick !!
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twombo
Seasoned Member
Posts: 119
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Post by twombo on Nov 7, 2019 3:19:59 GMT
Apologies, all!
that small fellow, on the left was in my Blind Spot. The small bit of purchase he gives, makes all the difference!
This CNC, Thing ma Jiggy, Roger, Carves ‘Im out, and Then you slice off the bit that you need.
The slight ‘cant you’ve added, looks ‘just enough, for working, ‘ in the blind ’
lovely. I picture these in the hands of Oily Rag’s erstwhile, Crew of fitters! Flippers, in Feathers case!
Wallace and Gromit Sized! Pardon my abuse of Them Queen’s English! I have been reading far too much LBSC!
MIck
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Post by Roger on Nov 7, 2019 7:47:08 GMT
Reminds me of Spanner for adjusting SU. Carbs. Roger, I drilled a hole in mine, and put them on my key ring! People ask “what are those”? I Say ,” Jet Fettlers!” I”ll get my Coat! Mick Hi Mick, The chunky one was supposed to have a hole in it like the last one I made, but I forgot to put it in. I'll do it later.
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Post by Roger on Nov 7, 2019 22:06:38 GMT
My thoughts are turning towards getting the rest of the Cab sorted out, and that means making the patchwork of chequer plate pieces, wooden planking and the two plinths, one on each side. I do have the Works Drawings for all of this, although the boiler is wider at the back not being tapered, so I'll be taking liberties with the dimensions. The boiler isn't just tapered but the firebox is also quite a bit too long. I presume the plinths were to give a better view through the windows? Being nearly 6' 2" I wouldn't need them, but I guess most people were shorter back then. You can see that the number of planks they used isn't what's shown on the drawing, but they may have been replaced several times for all I know. The edging is missing on the side nearest the seat, presumably so the planks can be removed. I'm going to continue that to the edge so the wood is retained and I can make it more easily. 20140204_113349 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr This is how it would look if I scaled it... Scale plinth by Timothy Froud, on Flickr ... but this is how I'm going to make it. The side plates are made from 2mm thick material with a slot for the wood to go into. The top of the slot is chamfered so that there's a thin edge left. The corner of the wood is chamfered to match so it looks like the metal is thin. The round edge will be filed on after it's been assembled. Doing it this way I can tack weld the inside corners and then Silver Solder them. The whole thing will be much more robust doing it this way and it's much easier to make. Practical plinth by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
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Post by doubletop on Nov 8, 2019 1:10:43 GMT
Roger
Why don't you make it easy for yourself and make it out of solid and machine a recess for the timber 'marquetry". You'll also then have a base to tap for the securing screws. The square corners can have a small radius if you use those carbide end mills you showed me.
Pete
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Post by Roger on Nov 8, 2019 8:10:48 GMT
Roger Why don't you make it easy for yourself and make it out of solid and machine a recess for the timber 'marquetry". You'll also then have a base to tap for the securing screws. The square corners can have a small radius if you use those carbide end mills you showed me. Pete Hi Pete, I did look at doing it that way, but to get the look of the thin top edge that secures the wood, you need to have some sort of recess. As it happens, it's all easy to make as modelled, they can all be machined in one operation from 2mm sheet. This way you get that sharp corner too. The edges are thick enough to take M1.4 bolts if I decide to hold it down that way. I'm not sure what I'm doing about that yet. These might cover screws that hold the cab floor in place and they may need to be able to be lifted off.
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Post by doubletop on Nov 8, 2019 9:00:36 GMT
I've no idea of the overall dimensions of the whole unit but with the walls are 2mm thick I was only thinking of a recess of, say, 2mm deep, and a thin verneer glued in. Plenty to tap into underneath.
Pete
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Post by andyhigham on Nov 8, 2019 9:25:35 GMT
looking at the photo, is that a gap in the "return" that holds the planks in place? It looks like the middle plank can be lifted out and the others slid to the middle to remove them
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Post by Roger on Nov 8, 2019 9:54:04 GMT
I've no idea of the overall dimensions of the whole unit but with the walls are 2mm thick I was only thinking of a recess of, say, 2mm deep, and a thin verneer glued in. Plenty to tap into underneath. Pete You certainly could make it that way, but I think you'd see that the wood was in a recess rather than being captive. It also creates the problem of having to create a sharp corner with a milling cutter. I think it would look better with the corner being sharp.
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Post by Roger on Nov 8, 2019 9:55:32 GMT
looking at the photo, is that a gap in the "return" that holds the planks in place? It looks like the middle plank can be lifted out and the others slid to the middle to remove them Yes, that's how I see it. I could do that, but it means the planks could come out. I suppose I could glue them in place at that point though.
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Post by Roger on Nov 11, 2019 19:45:12 GMT
I've been modelling some other parts and working on more of the cab floor details, so while I've been tied up on that, I thought I'd machine the modified bonnet which has the top section much closer to the Works Drawings. This is as close as I can get it without making the whole thing thinner. That's probably feasible, but it takes so long to machine, I don't want to risk doing that in case it's just too fragile. As it is, this is surprisingly strong, no doubt because of all those compound curves. Anyway, I must thank Julian for spotting that it really didn't look right before and I'm much happier with this attempt. It's mighty close to the Works Drawings now. The bottom was already correct, so I haven't changed anything there. The top is now the correct diameter as is the overall height and the top beading. The only thing that might be an improvement would be to add the bottom folded edge, but I've spent enough time on this already. 20191111_193346 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Now I need to decide how the shoulders are to be attached. The full sized one uses bolts, so I'll have to see how big those would be. Alternatively, bolts could be tiny rivets if they really are that small.... Edit:- Scratch that, the Works Drawing states that they are Brass 1/4" Snap head rivets, so that would equate to 0.56mm. I've got some 1/32" Copper Rivets which come out as 0.8mm, so I think those will do.
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Nov 11, 2019 20:28:54 GMT
Hi Roger,
I am sorry to have caused you so much extra work, but the new safety valve cover does look much better - well - perfect! Very well done! Looks just the part now!
Cheers, Julian
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Nov 11, 2019 20:42:07 GMT
Hi Roger,
On the 57XX class panniers, the raised wooden cab floor is not contained with a metal box, and I don't think the 94XX had a metal box either - 2 of which are preserved, neither the Collett Goods which was a derivation of much older classes. I don't know about the 64XX.
Given Swindon's tradition for building up the cab floor solely from wooden planks, I would myself have some misgivings over how 1501 is now 'as preserved' as to how, say, 9400 is preserved at Swindon, and how the 15XX were built. I have the Jim Russell drawings of the 15XX class but I haven't looked at them this evening.
Cheers, Julian
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Post by Roger on Nov 11, 2019 23:21:30 GMT
Hi Roger, On the 57XX class panniers, the raised wooden cab floor is not contained with a metal box, and I don't think the 94XX had a metal box either - 2 of which are preserved, neither the Collett Goods which was a derivation of much older classes. I don't know about the 64XX. Given Swindon's tradition for building up the cab floor solely from wooden planks, I would myself have some misgivings over how 1501 is now 'as preserved' as to how, say, 9400 is preserved at Swindon, and how the 15XX were built. I have the Jim Russell drawings of the 15XX class but I haven't looked at them this evening. Cheers, Julian Hi Julian, Fortunately, I have the footplate Works Drawings, and other than the fact that the number of planks of wood is different, it looks spot on to the drawing as it is in preservation. The raised platform with the wooden board on the driver's side also continues beyond the reverser right to the cab side. It looks like that was detailed first, and then had to be cut out to allow room for the reverser quadrant. It's all a bit strange, but doubtless there was a good reason for it. Personally I think I'd find the raised plinths something of a trip hazard. The one on the Fireman's side gets in the way when you need to reach down to turn on the injector water. The footplate is comprised of a patchwork of no fewer than eleven numbered and separately detailed pieces of chequer plate! I'm copying that as closely as I can, although something has to give around the rear of the boiler as that's further back than it should be and wider too. It ought to look right though, it's not that far out.
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Post by 92220 on Nov 12, 2019 9:16:02 GMT
I've been modelling some other parts and working on more of the cab floor details, so while I've been tied up on that, I thought I'd machine the modified bonnet which has the top section much closer to the Works Drawings. This is as close as I can get it without making the whole thing thinner. That's probably feasible, but it takes so long to machine, I don't want to risk doing that in case it's just too fragile. As it is, this is surprisingly strong, no doubt because of all those compound curves. Anyway, I must thank Julian for spotting that it really didn't look right before and I'm much happier with this attempt. It's mighty close to the Works Drawings now. The bottom was already correct, so I haven't changed anything there. The top is now the correct diameter as is the overall height and the top beading. The only thing that might be an improvement would be to add the bottom folded edge, but I've spent enough time on this already. 20191111_193346 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Now I need to decide how the shoulders are to be attached. The full sized one uses bolts, so I'll have to see how big those would be. Alternatively, bolts could be tiny rivets if they really are that small.... Edit:- Scratch that, the Works Drawing states that they are Brass 1/4" Snap head rivets, so that would equate to 0.56mm. I've got some 1/32" Copper Rivets which come out as 0.8mm, so I think those will do. Hi Roger. Knupfer do 0.6mm snap heads which equate to 1/4" diam. Even their M0.6mm screws and nuts would probably do. The heads are so tiny it is hard to see that they actually are hexagons. Keep up the good work. It's looking fantastic!!! Bob.
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Post by Roger on Nov 12, 2019 9:34:43 GMT
Now I need to decide how the shoulders are to be attached. The full sized one uses bolts, so I'll have to see how big those would be. Alternatively, bolts could be tiny rivets if they really are that small.... Edit:- Scratch that, the Works Drawing states that they are Brass 1/4" Snap head rivets, so that would equate to 0.56mm. I've got some 1/32" Copper Rivets which come out as 0.8mm, so I think those will do. Hi Roger. Knupfer do 0.6mm snap heads which equate to 1/4" diam. Even their M0.6mm screws and nuts would probably do. The heads are so tiny it is hard to see that they actually are hexagons. Keep up the good work. It's looking fantastic!!! Bob. Thanks Bob, I'll take a look. Rivets are the right thing to hold the shoulders on, but the base ought to have some dummy bolt heads where the bonnet is attached around the outside.
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Post by Roger on Nov 12, 2019 17:15:06 GMT
It looks like 0.5mm Brass rivets will be a better size, I can get those from eBay The bolts are 3/8" which equates to an AF size of around 1.3mm, so M0.8 from Knupfer seems to be the best bet for those. I'll probably drill clearance holes for them and Loctite them in place. Anyway, there are five rivet holes and six bolt holes to go in various places on the assembly, so I thought I'd 3D print a support that I can use in the tilting rotary table for drilling those. 20191112_101628 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I had to take a file to it to add a bit more clearance over the flanges on the inside, but it's now a really snug fit. I put a large clearance hole through the middle, reduced to 6mm so I could us a cap screw and washer to gently hold the whole thing together. 20191112_143757 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I had to file a generous radius on the inside corner of the shoulder cutouts in the Brass bonnet to get this to sit nicely. Looking as the Works Drawing, they allow a bit of clearance around the intersection of the shoulder to accommodate the bend in the sheet metal. That's quite a bit tighter radius than I've achieved. Still, I could add a bit more clearance from side to side, but I think it looks better if it's a close fit. Others might not agree! 20191112_160210 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
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