Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Apr 20, 2022 22:24:01 GMT
Hi Roger. CNC sounds the way to go. I just didn't know what accuracy 3D printing gives. As far as time to leave between lining colours, it is not long. The lining paint should be touch dry in around 2 - 2.1/2 hours. The paint only needs to be touch dry, not fully cured. This also means that if you have made a mistake, the paint can be removed with white spirit or turps substitute, without effect on the main loco paint, if that is the base solvent for the lining colours. Actually Blue-Tac should be safe to leave for up to a month, without ill effect, as long as the paint coat it is in contact with, is fully cured. If masking tape is used, that shouldn't be left sticking to the loco for more than around 2 to 4 hours, otherwise the adhesive can begin to transfer to the paint surface, depending on the brand of masking tape. A warm atmosphere can also make this problem worse, so experimenting might be worth doing, depending on what products you intend to use. Chris's system above will work well. You must be able to remove a mistake, though, without effecting the previous line, or main paint coat, so timing is important. And that depends on the products used. Bob. Hi Bob and Roger “brand of masking tape”. Bear in mind that there are many different types of masking tape on the market now, with different properties. The old-fashioned buff crèpe paper tape is also one of the worst for our purposes, as I (re-)discovered recently when painting Paddington. In truth, I used it without thinking, because it came on a roll, edging a pre-attached 2ft strip of thin polythene which seemed ideal for my purposes… WRONG, and not for the first time…. Low tack and extra-curvy tapes are available (though the latter gives a very rough edge). Also there are other sorts; extra durable, waterproof, and ‘clean line’ types, and various combinations as well (probably). It’s worth researching the market and then (needless to say) testing on an inconspicuous area first… In fairness, I don’t remember the traditional masking tape causing blemishes on enamel. In retrospect I think my incident may have been a combination of the acrylic medium and the short drying time I allowed (1 or 2 days, I can’t remember). I wouldn’t dream of putting masking tape on enamel after such a short time, but acrylics are so quick drying I assumed it would be OK. (And ultimately it was, because the blemishes polished out, but lesson learned!) Anyway, back to tapes. I recall a yachting mag did a ‘group test’ of various types of masking tape (believe it or not). It was several years ago, but might stll be available on line, for what it’s worth. But for really critical work you could do worse than use Frisk low-tack madking film, which has very weak adhesion and leaves no residue. Gary
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Post by Roger on Apr 21, 2022 7:13:25 GMT
Hi Roger. CNC sounds the way to go. I just didn't know what accuracy 3D printing gives. As far as time to leave between lining colours, it is not long. The lining paint should be touch dry in around 2 - 2.1/2 hours. The paint only needs to be touch dry, not fully cured. This also means that if you have made a mistake, the paint can be removed with white spirit or turps substitute, without effect on the main loco paint, if that is the base solvent for the lining colours. Actually Blue-Tac should be safe to leave for up to a month, without ill effect, as long as the paint coat it is in contact with, is fully cured. If masking tape is used, that shouldn't be left sticking to the loco for more than around 2 to 4 hours, otherwise the adhesive can begin to transfer to the paint surface, depending on the brand of masking tape. A warm atmosphere can also make this problem worse, so experimenting might be worth doing, depending on what products you intend to use. Chris's system above will work well. You must be able to remove a mistake, though, without effecting the previous line, or main paint coat, so timing is important. And that depends on the products used. Bob. Hi Bob and Roger “brand of masking tape”. Bear in mind that there are many different types of masking tape on the market now, with different properties. The old-fashioned buff crèpe paper tape is also one of the worst for our purposes, as I (re-)discovered recently when painting Paddington. In truth, I used it without thinking, because it came on a roll, edging a pre-attached 2ft strip of thin polythene which seemed ideal for my purposes… WRONG, and not for the first time…. Low tack and extra-curvy tapes are available (though the latter gives a very rough edge). Also there are other sorts; extra durable, waterproof, and ‘clean line’ types, and various combinations as well (probably). It’s worth researching the market and then (needless to say) testing on an inconspicuous area first… In fairness, I don’t remember the traditional masking tape causing blemishes on enamel. In retrospect I think my incident may have been a combination of the acrylic medium and the short drying time I allowed (1 or 2 days, I can’t remember). I wouldn’t dream of putting masking tape on enamel after such a short time, but acrylics are so quick drying I assumed it would be OK. (And ultimately it was, because the blemishes polished out, but lesson learned!) Anyway, back to tapes. I recall a yachting mag did a ‘group test’ of various types of masking tape (believe it or not). It was several years ago, but might stll be available on line, for what it’s worth. But for really critical work you could do worse than use Frisk low-tack madking film, which has very weak adhesion and leaves no residue. Gary Thanks for the tips Gary, I've had experience of terrible masking tape getting stuck to things and leaving hard deposits behind. I've got some low tack stuff i've used recently, and that seems to be really good. Low tack definitely seems to be the way to go.
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Post by 92220 on Apr 21, 2022 8:08:48 GMT
Hi Roger.
As Gary says, Frisk low tack masking tape is good stuff, but it's not easy to get hold of, or at least it didn't used to be. Just one point though: Low tack masking is OK, but depending on what you get, it may not have enough grip to guarantee not moving, and thus spoiling the lining job. I use Blue-Tac a lot, and have always been able to remove it easily with no ill effects to the substrate.
Bob.
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Post by flyingfox on Apr 21, 2022 11:37:17 GMT
Greetings, I think I have seen a tape which is applied to the area, then the middle removed, leaving a thin line between two outside tapes. Mostly used on model aircraft lining perhaps. Am I imagining it, and is it still available? Regards Brian B
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Post by 92220 on Apr 21, 2022 12:39:52 GMT
Hi Brian.
These tapes are mainly for lining out cars. They are, or were, readily available from car accessory shops.
Bob.
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dfh
Hi-poster
Posts: 197
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Post by dfh on Apr 21, 2022 13:39:48 GMT
Greetings, I think I have seen a tape which is applied to the area, then the middle removed, leaving a thin line between two outside tapes. Mostly used on model aircraft lining perhaps. Am I imagining it, and is it still available? Regards Brian B I think the tape you are thinking of is Finesse pin striping tape, you will find it online under that name. It is also used for lining on narrowboats, it is available in many combinations of line size and gap size, I think it is only useful for straight lines though. Have a look here www.stonehouses.co.uk/finesse-pinstriping-tape/David
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Post by flyingfox on Apr 21, 2022 15:13:57 GMT
Yes, thank you both, that's the stuff. Regards Brian
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Post by cplmickey on Apr 23, 2022 21:50:44 GMT
Thanks for the tips Gary, I've had experience of terrible masking tape getting stuck to things and leaving hard deposits behind. I've got some low tack stuff i've used recently, and that seems to be really good. Low tack definitely seems to be the way to go. I've used the lo-tac stuff myself and got along fine with it. However, I've noted in my "useful tips" log the use of Frog Tape which was recommended to me/us possibly by someone on here so there's another one to consider. Ian
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Apr 23, 2022 23:18:35 GMT
Thanks for the tips Gary, I've had experience of terrible masking tape getting stuck to things and leaving hard deposits behind. I've got some low tack stuff i've used recently, and that seems to be really good. Low tack definitely seems to be the way to go. I've used the lo-tac stuff myself and got along fine with it. However, I've noted in my "useful tips" log the use of Frog Tape which was recommended to me/us possibly by someone on here so there's another one to consider. Ian Yes indeed. When I mentioned the yachting mag group test ISTR that Frog was one of the top scorers, but I’ve not used it (yet). Will be interesting to try it. I’m so glad my loco was unlined! Gary
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uuu
Elder Statesman
your message here...
Posts: 2,808
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Post by uuu on Apr 24, 2022 7:40:15 GMT
I've been using Frog tape for home decorating, and I like it. It comes in different colours - there's one with less adhesive for use on delicate surfaces, which might be worth a try. WIN_20220424_08_44_39_Pro by Wilf, on Flickr Wilf
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Post by Roger on Apr 24, 2022 21:29:07 GMT
The top of the Whistle Valve has two curved pieces that are part of the casting. Those provide the pivot point for the actuating lever. Only one is shown in this view. Whistle valve assembly by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I had a scrap of 0.6mm thick PB102 sheet left over from the Crosshead Slipper Bearings, so I cleaned that up with Acetone and stuck it on the backing board with double sided tape. 20220424_123206 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I'm using a 1mm Carbide End mill to cut these out so I can get four of them out of this scrap of material. It's gnarly material to mill, so I just take it slowly with shallow cuts. These were only 0.15mm deep, and I used a overlap of 0.1mm to finish it to size in one operation. I used two nibs, 10mm long and 0.3mm high to make sure the parts stayed attached to the stock. 20220424_165539 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr 20220424_170344 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr You can see how the cutter has bruised the thin back and lifted it off the backing board. This always happens. I filed that all flat to make it easier to remove from the stock. 20220424_170412 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr They're so tiny that it's too easy to lose them while filing, so I used Florist's wire to make them easier to handle. 20220424_221158 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
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44767
Statesman
Posts: 529
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Post by 44767 on Apr 25, 2022 7:42:58 GMT
Hi Roger, Sorry to interrupt the current train of thought! I am doing the pipe runs in CAD for my Class 3 tank and found that these engines had one 8X and one 10X injector. It can be seen that they are a different size on the pipe drawing so I wondered how different they are so I did the search on Mr G and this thread came up! Here is part of that drawing: I have marked in red where the injectors fit as they don't include the actual fittings in the pipe drawing. The 8X looks to be shorter and, judging by photos, they are slightly different in the casting they originally used. Anyway, keep up the good work and I'll carry on too! Mike
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Post by Roger on Apr 25, 2022 9:44:29 GMT
Hi Roger, Sorry to interrupt the current train of thought! I am doing the pipe runs in CAD for my Class 3 tank and found that these engines had one 8X and one 10X injector. It can be seen that they are a different size on the pipe drawing so I wondered how different they are so I did the search on Mr G and this thread came up! Here is part of that drawing: I have marked in red where the injectors fit as they don't include the actual fittings in the pipe drawing. The 8X looks to be shorter and, judging by photos, they are slightly different in the casting they originally used. Anyway, keep up the good work and I'll carry on too! Mike Hi Mike, How odd, I wonder why they fitted two different sizes, there must have been a good reason. I've only 3D modelled a few pipe runs, it's not the easiest thing to do in Alibre Design. Their method of creating 3D sketches is absolutely horrible and unituitive. PM Sent
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,719
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Post by mbrown on Apr 25, 2022 10:51:24 GMT
The usual reason for having two different sized injectors is to have one (the smaller one) which roughly matches the water consumption when the loco is on its usual duties, and the larger one to enable the boiler to be filled more quickly when the water level is low.
Malcolm
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Post by delaplume on Apr 27, 2022 4:16:51 GMT
I was under the impression that the 8 and 10 shared the same body but had different jettings etc.......whatones are on the 9F ??
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Post by delaplume on Apr 27, 2022 4:20:43 GMT
The usual reason for having two different sized injectors is to have one (the smaller one) which roughly matches the water consumption when the loco is on its usual duties, and the larger one to enable the boiler to be filled more quickly when the water level is low. Malcolm or you could have 2 of the same capacity---- alternate their daily use and bring in the second one if extra feed were needed......8's forthe smaller boilers and 10's for the larger types.....
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Post by 92220 on Apr 27, 2022 8:07:45 GMT
I was under the impression that the 8 and 10 shared the same body but had different jettings etc.......whatones are on the 9F ?? The 9f has a Type K exhaust injector and a Type 10 injector. Early locos had a Type 11 injector instead of the Type 10. There was almost no difference in the body castings. The 10X was 3/8" shorter than the 11X body casting. The jets were the working difference. Bob. Edit: I can't check the Type 8 body casting because I don't have a B.R. drawing of it. Bob.
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Post by Roger on Apr 27, 2022 9:09:38 GMT
I was under the impression that the 8 and 10 shared the same body but had different jettings etc.......whatones are on the 9F ?? Hi Alan, At first glance they do look the same. However, the body castings are different. The 8X is shorter and also has a smaller body diameter, 3-9/16" compared to 4-1/4" for the 10X. There are a lot of other visual differences, some brought about by the fact that both share the same flange sizes which obviously have to blend to the different diameters and lengths.
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Post by delaplume on Apr 29, 2022 2:18:03 GMT
Thanks chaps----- that sets it straight..
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,438
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Post by dscott on Apr 30, 2022 4:35:08 GMT
On the Hottest of hot afternoons on the Bluebell I was invited to stand in the ENCLOSED cab of the Standard 4 tank. Quick visits by the crew braving the temperatures. I was melting but so enjoying. Then they moved her 100 yards. WOW. One of the quick visits saw one of the injectors operated. MMM. Then the next time. Yes he told. "The favorite is the one we can reach, not the one you have to get on your knees to open the water valve for!!" That told me. Do check on the scale place for the water valves and then go and fit an easy to get to one on the tender or driving trolley. Preferably sat in the water to prevent air bubbles.
David and Lily.
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