JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,912
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Post by JonL on Nov 6, 2022 11:48:59 GMT
I can't remember, what stage is your boiler at with regards to club testing? They may want to see under the cladding before you go too far.
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Post by Roger on Nov 6, 2022 15:29:56 GMT
I can't remember, what stage is your boiler at with regards to club testing? They may want to see under the cladding before you go too far. The Boiler is already finished and passed the Hydraulic Test at the Club. There's no issue in the UK with this arrangement as far as my Club is concerned.
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Post by Roger on Nov 9, 2022 12:40:33 GMT
I'd like to make the thin sheet metal infills between the Pannier Tanks and the Barrel Cladding, so I've assembled it to this stage. PXL_20221106_160831403 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr It's so easy to scratch the paint, putting the bands on, so I really only wanted to do that once. They aren't tight yet, but they need to be else I can't do that job. However, I now realise that I've got more lining to do, because the bands have a Red line down both sides. I can see me scratching the paint if I tighten them down and then have to take them off again for Lining, so I guess I'll have to be sensible and Line those next. PXL_20221106_160823905 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
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Post by Roger on Nov 17, 2022 20:48:57 GMT
Here's the Flow Meter I bought from eBay that's used for measuring the gas flow from a MIG or TIG torch. The rubber cone normally fits on the end of the plastic tube. The large base is just to give it some weight so that it stands upright when being used. The 'O' ring goes below the flange, and the two collet pieces are a press fit in the hole to keep it all in place. They have to be in two halves because the tube is tapered. PXL_20221117_153815424 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I've got some old Imperial Clippard fittings from the old company, so I've used one of the barbs to connect the hose. I'll try in on the Drain Cocks next time I'm in a position to put air on the Chassis again. PXL_20221117_154316493 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
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Post by Roger on Nov 18, 2022 14:31:38 GMT
Here's my solution to Lining near to the edge of the Boiler Bands. I'm not putting the line right on the edge because that's asking for paint to run onto any guide I design. I suppose I could undercut the guide, but I think I'm better off just leaving a small gap. PXL_20221118_140453614 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr This one is a little further from the edge than I need to be, so I'm printing out an other one. The Syringe Needles have a draft angle of course, so I've added a draft angle to the inside of the 3D print. i wan't it to sit nicely on there without it wobbling. This one is printed in PLA which I find gives a smoother edge. It's also harder than PETG, so it can be sanded or filed more easily if the guide face needs tidying up. So far, it looks good enough straight off the printer. PXL_20221118_140522769 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
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Post by 92220 on Nov 19, 2022 14:49:12 GMT
That's a handy idea Roger. I have a number of different sized Uno pen heads that a friend gave me years ago. I'll have to make up a holder/guide like yours, and see if they work with paint. One thing I have found is a jet black that is almost as thin as water, but completely opaque. It is refill ink for a permanent Black marker. It is available in 50mls and 100mls bottles. I plan to use it on my backhead plate that has dozens of M0.8 and M0.6 screw hex heads. The other advantage of using this marker refill is that it doesn't rub off like you might expect. It acts exactly like paint. The next question was how should I apply it. On the day it was delivered, I received a Machine Mart digital catalogue in my emails, which was advertising an airbrush for £27.00. If I wreck it, using the marker refill ink, which dries in a few seconds, at least I won't have spoiled my best airbrush. IPA is used for cleaning off marker pen ink, so that should be able to be used to clean up the airbrush.....hopefully.
I've just looked the ink refills up on the 'net and various colours are available in 30mls bottles, from Amazon. The trade name is Eddings T25, which is the make of my Black refill ink. There is a range of 8 different shades on Amazon, so I will get some to see if I can make up the Lining Orange and Lining Red, as used on BR locos. I will report back, because it could be ideal for lining out, being very opaque, and as runny as ink, to use in a lining pen. Thank you Roger. If you hadn't shown your lining pen guide, I probably wouldn't have thought of looking at Permanent Marker Ink colours.
Bob.
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Post by Roger on Nov 19, 2022 17:29:04 GMT
That's a handy idea Roger. I have a number of different sized Uno pen heads that a friend gave me years ago. I'll have to make up a holder/guide like yours, and see if they work with paint. One thing I have found is a jet black that is almost as thin as water, but completely opaque. It is refill ink for a permanent Black marker. It is available in 50mls and 100mls bottles. I plan to use it on my backhead plate that has dozens of M0.8 and M0.6 screw hex heads. The other advantage of using this marker refill is that it doesn't rub off like you might expect. It acts exactly like paint. The next question was how should I apply it. On the day it was delivered, I received a Machine Mart digital catalogue in my emails, which was advertising an airbrush for £27.00. If I wreck it, using the marker refill ink, which dries in a few seconds, at least I won't have spoiled my best airbrush. IPA is used for cleaning off marker pen ink, so that should be able to be used to clean up the airbrush.....hopefully. I've just looked the ink refills up on the 'net and various colours are available in 30mls bottles, from Amazon. The trade name is Eddings T25, which is the make of my Black refill ink. There is a range of 8 different shades on Amazon, so I will get some to see if I can make up the Lining Orange and Lining Red, as used on BR locos. I will report back, because it could be ideal for lining out, being very opaque, and as runny as ink, to use in a lining pen. Thank you Roger. If you hadn't shown your lining pen guide, I probably wouldn't have thought of looking at Permanent Marker Ink colours. Bob. Hi Bob, That's good to know, thick paint is a problem with such narrow lines. So far I've managed to use the 'pen' with paint straight from the tin, but it flows very slowly.
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Post by Roger on Nov 20, 2022 13:16:21 GMT
Ok, I've had a go at this but I can't see well enough and my hand is too shaky to get a good line. I've just ordered one of these 3.5RPM motors from eBay with a view to lashing up something to hold the pen and turn the band slowly and smoothly. I've used this type of motor extensively, so I've already got a mount for it on the painting rotisserie. I may need to support the other end of the shaft to make it more steady, but we'll see. I've rigged up a Laptop and a magnifying camera so at least I can see what's going on. Being really short sighted is so helpful when you come to this sort of job, and I'm not any more. I've gone from about -6.8 to -2, and that means I can't focus anywhere near as close to me as I used to be able to. Hopefully my new Varifocals will come to the rescue, but I can't have the eye test until Dec 16th so that the surgery can settle down. So at the moment I'm switching between my cheap -2 reading glasses so I can drive, and no glasses in the workshop. That feels very strange. I've bought these x3.5 clip on magnifying glasses, but they aren't much good with the -2 reading glasses. They should be much better with the varifocals when I get them. I've also bought these cheap magnifying Jeweller's glasses which might be better. Who knows I'll just keep trying things until I find something I can live with. Hopefully the clip on glasses will be the solution, but these ones might help while I'm waiting for the Varifocals.
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Post by 92220 on Nov 20, 2022 14:01:40 GMT
Hi Roger.
I bought some magnifying glasses to go over my glasses, which are Varifocal. The magnifying glasses are useless for our use if you have Varifocals. I guess they would probably work better with single focus glasses though. The problem with Varifocals and the magnifying glasses is that every time you move your head, or look through a different part of the Varifocal lens, you have to re-adjust the magnifying glasses on the end of your nose, as they go out of focus with just very slight movement.
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Post by Roger on Nov 20, 2022 14:23:58 GMT
Hi Roger. I bought some magnifying glasses to go over my glasses, which are Varifocal. The magnifying glasses are useless for our use if you have Varifocals. I guess they would probably work better with single focus glasses though. The problem with Varifocals and the magnifying glasses is that every time you move your head, or look through a different part of the Varifocal lens, you have to re-adjust the magnifying glasses on the end of your nose, as they go out of focus with just very slight movement. Hi Bob, Ah, that might be a problem then. Not all Varifocals are created equal though. I had wonderful ones from Specsavers, made by a company called Varilux. Specsavers developed their own premium Varifocals and convinced me to give them a try, on the understanding that it I couldn't get on with them, they would just charge me the difference and get me the Varilux. Well, they were hopeless. I could focus on a spot up and down, but as soon as my head moved from side to side, the spot was out of focus. With the Varilux lenses, I could focus on a spot, and it would stay in focus even if I turned my head from side to side. Needless to say, I insist on Varilux lenses now. They're more expensive, but worth every penny in my opinion.
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Post by Roger on Nov 20, 2022 15:46:50 GMT
Here's my first attempt at a solution to lining the Boiler Bands. The idea is to hold the the lining pen gently against the side of the band while allowing the weight of the handle to rest on the band. I'll make a bracket to support a 10mm bar across the front of the painting Rotisserie. The 3D printed parts make up something like the arm on a record player. The handle is a push fit in the Brown part, and it hinges on the pin on the Green part, which itself pivots on the front bar. The Green part has a couple of spring levers printed as part of it, and the Black split parts hold it in place. The spring elements centre the arm so the pen can be used on either side of the band. Obviously I could turn the band around, but this is simple enough to do. Mechanism for painting bands by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
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Post by 92220 on Nov 21, 2022 9:16:30 GMT
Hi Roger. I bought some magnifying glasses to go over my glasses, which are Varifocal. The magnifying glasses are useless for our use if you have Varifocals. I guess they would probably work better with single focus glasses though. The problem with Varifocals and the magnifying glasses is that every time you move your head, or look through a different part of the Varifocal lens, you have to re-adjust the magnifying glasses on the end of your nose, as they go out of focus with just very slight movement. Hi Bob, Ah, that might be a problem then. Not all Varifocals are created equal though. I had wonderful ones from Specsavers, made by a company called Varilux. Specsavers developed their own premium Varifocals and convinced me to give them a try, on the understanding that it I couldn't get on with them, they would just charge me the difference and get me the Varilux. Well, they were hopeless. I could focus on a spot up and down, but as soon as my head moved from side to side, the spot was out of focus. With the Varilux lenses, I could focus on a spot, and it would stay in focus even if I turned my head from side to side. Needless to say, I insist on Varilux lenses now. They're more expensive, but worth every penny in my opinion. Hi Roger. Yes. I found that the Varifocals were the best. I think they introduced them to the UK originally. As you say though. They are expensive. Bob.
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Post by Roger on Nov 21, 2022 10:36:53 GMT
Hi Bob, Ah, that might be a problem then. Not all Varifocals are created equal though. I had wonderful ones from Specsavers, made by a company called Varilux. Specsavers developed their own premium Varifocals and convinced me to give them a try, on the understanding that it I couldn't get on with them, they would just charge me the difference and get me the Varilux. Well, they were hopeless. I could focus on a spot up and down, but as soon as my head moved from side to side, the spot was out of focus. With the Varilux lenses, I could focus on a spot, and it would stay in focus even if I turned my head from side to side. Needless to say, I insist on Varilux lenses now. They're more expensive, but worth every penny in my opinion. Hi Roger. Yes. I found that the Varifocals were the best. I think they introduced them to the UK originally. As you say though. They are expensive. Bob. Hi Bob, Did you mean Varilux not Varifocal? Varilux is a specific brand of Varifocal, one that I found to be much better than other brands. It may have been more acute in my case because I was so short sighted. I think I was about -6.8, and that meant I had to have the High Refractive Index lenses too.
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Post by 92220 on Nov 21, 2022 12:35:53 GMT
Hi Roger. Sorry. Varilux is who I meant. They were the first VARIFOCAL glasses I ever had....in the days I had a bit more money than just pensions!!!
Bob.
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Post by Roger on Nov 21, 2022 21:52:59 GMT
This is the spring hinge for the Lining Pen mechanism... PXL_20221121_210328892 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr ... and this is how that looks with the Pen attached to the arm. PXL_20221121_210357131 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I realised that the Pressure Gauge valve attaches to the Turret in a position that I'd left as a blind hole, so that needed to be drilled through and the tap run the rest of the way. PXL_20221121_110617599 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I didn't want to drop any of the nuts into the Boiler while removing them from the studs... PXL_20221121_111046850 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr ... or drop them behind the Backhead Cladding. The Turret has to be lifted up so that the nuts can still turn. The Turret is sealed with a Viton 'O' ring let into the face of the flange. The bolts only need to be finger tight really. PXL_20221121_112050485 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Hopefully this can all stay on now. PXL_20221121_210439316 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr While I'm waiting for the Motor for the painting arrangement to arrive, I thought I'd move the Whistle Valves a little further on. After Silver Soldering the outlet Union, the hole was flooded with Silver Solder. This was inevitable really. Here I've screwed the valve onto my standard M5 x 0.5 (fine) mandrel which is held in the Drill Chuck in the 4th axis to make adjusting the angle easy. A Union Nut was fitted onto the thread and a piece of HSS tool was balanced on it so it could be aligned with parallels placed on the bed. I usually set these things by eye since the long length allows you to see a pretty small angle. PXL_20221121_115347399 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Clocking around a thread is possible with care. Obviously the stylus wants to drop into the thread troughs, so I move the head up and down to see the range of readings at each angular position. It's not ideal, but it's a reasonably accurate solution. PXL_20221121_120026689 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Although this looks massive, the drill is only 0.7mm diameter. I'm using the High Speed Spindle and turning the feed wheel on the quill achingly slowly, watching the DRO all the time. I only went in 0.5mm at a time, so this took about ten minutes to drill through the 5mm. I'm sure it could have been done quicker, but I really didn't fancy having to make another one for the sake of a bit of patience. PXL_20221121_142423859 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
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Post by Roger on Nov 23, 2022 22:12:37 GMT
I assembled these valve and put some air pressure on them to get a flavour of how well they would seal, and the answer was about the same as a colander. The ball was then crushed into the seat, and that made a big difference, but there was still a large leak on the bottom thread. Sectioned valve by Timothy Froud, on Flickr So this is a closeup of the offending area, with a 2.5mm thick PTFE gasket which will need to be punched out of sheet. I had planned to use a copper ring on the inside, but I think this is going to be more reliable. I can put quite a lot of force on the gasket which should compress it somewhat. We'll see how well that works. I crushed the balls into the seats again, so hopefully this will solve the problem. Sectioned valve seal by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
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Post by Roger on Jan 7, 2023 16:52:05 GMT
Happy New Year to you all, I hope you've had a pleasant Christmas. I've been very busy with business activities, dog walking and other dog related activities I may share elsewhere. It was also pretty cold even in my heated workshop, so I didn't really feel inclined to do much on the Locomotive. Added to that, I've had both Cataracts done, and it's been a struggle to see well enough to do anything close up. My new glasses are ready for collection on Monday, so hopefully I can finally get back to making some progress on the Locomotive. If you recall, I was just about to fit the Boiler Bands when I realised that they needed a Red line on each edge. Although I tried to do them by hand, I just couldn't see well enough, and my hand isn't that steady anyway. So, the solution I adopted was to mechanise the whole process, using this 3D printed attachment for the Lining Pen that uses a blunt Syringe Needle. You can set the Pen at any angle in both axes, and the hinge is similar to that on a record player. The Black split sleeves stop the body from slipping on the shaft, and the Green fingers are plastic springs to keep the arm against the side of the Band. Lining pen arm assembly by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Anyway, I've finally got the 3.5RPM motor from China, powered it from 5v instead of the rated 12v, and it goes at just the right speed with the belt reduction. If you click on the picture, you can see the video of how that looks. PXL_20230107_153030751.TS by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The Grey piece is a 3D printed guide that keeps the Pen at the desired distance from the edge. PXL_20230107_153119123 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr PXL_20230107_153135758 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr It's a pretty crude arrangement, but it works like a charm. I didn't need to paint them all the way around, only the top part is seen on the ones hidden by the Pannier Tanks. However, the front on is completely visible just behind the Smokebox. PXL_20230107_162253680 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
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Post by chris vine on Jan 7, 2023 17:24:15 GMT
Hi Roger,
Your lines look lovely and crisp. I think the only way to get really cute lines with these pens is to mechanise it. The changing speed when done by hand gets a line of varying thickness.
Now then, as to your question of whether to put the lining all the way around the bands: I would think that your version is more correct than running them all the way round. I very much doubt it the lining artist in the original works would have bothered to run the lines into tricky places where they can't be see in any case!
Chris
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Post by Roger on Jan 7, 2023 19:05:43 GMT
Hi Roger, Your lines look lovely and crisp. I think the only way to get really cute lines with these pens is to mechanise it. The changing speed when done by hand gets a line of varying thickness. Now then, as to your question of whether to put the lining all the way around the bands: I would think that your version is more correct than running them all the way round. I very much doubt it the lining artist in the original works would have bothered to run the lines into tricky places where they can't be see in any case! Chris Hi Chris, I may have to see if I can use the CNC mill like you suggested before to do the Pannier Tanks. Doing the Cab and Bunker is going to be really tricky because of the rivets the lining goes over though, so I'm not sure that's feasible. I suppose I could hop over those and finish that by hand. We'll see. Obviously a very light and smooth action is required for the pen so that it doesn't dig in when the height inevitable changes. I've actually painted all round each of the bands, so it's probably not correct.
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Post by 92220 on Jan 8, 2023 16:30:25 GMT
As Chris says, it makes sense that the band lines don't go all the way around a boiler band. That is certainly correct for Evening Star, and other B.R. liveried locos. The boiler band lining stops at the top edge of the running boards, down the sides of the boiler. Stepping away from the 15xx, a moment...For ALL locos, painted B.R.Green, EVERYTHING below running board level, is Black. You see lots of 'Evening Star' models, and Britannias, where the sides of the firebox, below the running boards, are painted Green. WRONG!! Should be Black, as specified on the official B.R.livery drawing I have.
Bob.
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