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Post by doubletop on Sept 14, 2023 8:17:53 GMT
Roger I think most of us would be pretty chuffed with that. I don't think you'd get a pen, lining brush or Beuglar to get the corners that crisp Pete |
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Post by chris vine on Sept 14, 2023 11:11:30 GMT
Hi Roger,
That is really excellent and very crisp.
In particular it is difficult to get a pen to create even lines and even more difficult where you join sections like straight to curves.
Now for the next part...
Chris.
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Post by Roger on Sept 14, 2023 13:06:15 GMT
Hi Roger, That is really excellent and very crisp. In particular it is difficult to get a pen to create even lines and even more difficult where you join sections like straight to curves. Now for the next part... Chris. Hi Chris, The really tricky bit is going to be lining up the Cream inside line. I think that will require some kind of soap to allow me to move it slightly. I may do the Red line first, because that won't need to be quite as accurate and I can probably put that on dry. If I do that first, I won't have any soap on the paint from when I do the Cream line. We'll see. It's a different ball game when the mask is huge. |
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Post by doubletop on Sept 14, 2023 20:29:13 GMT
Hi Roger, That is really excellent and very crisp. In particular it is difficult to get a pen to create even lines and even more difficult where you join sections like straight to curves. Now for the next part... Chris. Hi Chris, The really tricky bit is going to be lining up the Cream inside line. I think that will require some kind of soap to allow me to move it slightly. I may do the Red line first, because that won't need to be quite as accurate and I can probably put that on dry. If I do that first, I won't have any soap on the paint from when I do the Cream line. We'll see. It's a different ball game when the mask is huge. Roger That is why I was suggesting doing the grey and cream lines in one mask, so the registration doesn't become a problem. Thinking further, if the vinyl for the cream line wasn't 'weeded' on the first pass it would act as the mask for itself. Once the grey line was painted the vinyl for the cream line could be removed, the grey line masked with tape and then the cream line painted. As you say aligning the red line with a second mask is less of a problem. Pete |
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Post by ettingtonliam on Sept 14, 2023 21:05:47 GMT
As I may have said before, I'm certainly glad that Locomotion had no lining whatsoever----.
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Post by Roger on Sept 15, 2023 8:07:13 GMT
Hi Chris, The really tricky bit is going to be lining up the Cream inside line. I think that will require some kind of soap to allow me to move it slightly. I may do the Red line first, because that won't need to be quite as accurate and I can probably put that on dry. If I do that first, I won't have any soap on the paint from when I do the Cream line. We'll see. It's a different ball game when the mask is huge. Roger That is why I was suggesting doing the grey and cream lines in one mask, so the registration doesn't become a problem. Thinking further, if the vinyl for the cream line wasn't 'weeded' on the first pass it would act as the mask for itself. Once the grey line was painted the vinyl for the cream line could be removed, the grey line masked with tape and then the cream line painted. As you say aligning the red line with a second mask is less of a problem. Pete Hi Pete, Each time you spray, you have to create both inner and outer mask lines. You can only create one of them if you remove something from an existing mask. You can cut the line for the inside of the Cream line and weed that after spraying the Grey. However, how do you protect the Grey you've just sprayed unless you add another mask? I don't think there's any way to avoid having separate masks for each colour, unless I'm missing something? |
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Post by doubletop on Sept 15, 2023 8:45:18 GMT
Roger That is why I was suggesting doing the grey and cream lines in one mask, so the registration doesn't become a problem. Thinking further, if the vinyl for the cream line wasn't 'weeded' on the first pass it would act as the mask for itself. Once the grey line was painted the vinyl for the cream line could be removed, the grey line masked with tape and then the cream line painted. As you say aligning the red line with a second mask is less of a problem. Pete Hi Pete, Each time you spray, you have to create both inner and outer mask lines. You can only create one of them if you remove something from an existing mask. You can cut the line for the inside of the Cream line and weed that after spraying the Grey. However, how do you protect the Grey you've just sprayed unless you add another mask? I don't think there's any way to avoid having separate masks for each colour, unless I'm missing something? Roger I was suggesting to simply use something like masking tape to cover the grey painted lines once they were dry. I doesn't need to be neat it will all be removed once the cream is dry. EDIT I've just realised the cream and grey may abutt each other, I was assuming a gap of black between the two Pete |
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Post by chris vine on Sept 15, 2023 9:20:52 GMT
Hi Roger,
One thought for you, with regard to a second line abutting a previous.
Imagine you have a wide line with a narrow line right up against it. Can you print the wide line a bit wider than needed so that there can be an overlap of the two lines.
Now, you could drop the second narrow line partly on top of the previous wider line. This will give you a margin for error: If the new line is a bit too close, the visible part of the wider line will be a tiny bit narrower, but that won't really show as it is quite wide so the percentage error will be smaller.
If the new line is a bit further away, there won't be a gap as some of the wider line will still be there.
Chris.
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Post by Roger on Sept 15, 2023 9:41:32 GMT
Hi Roger, One thought for you, with regard to a second line abutting a previous. Imagine you have a wide line with a narrow line right up against it. Can you print the wide line a bit wider than needed so that there can be an overlap of the two lines. Now, you could drop the second narrow line partly on top of the previous wider line. This will give you a margin for error: If the new line is a bit too close, the visible part of the wider line will be a tiny bit narrower, but that won't really show as it is quite wide so the percentage error will be smaller. If the new line is a bit further away, there won't be a gap as some of the wider line will still be there. Chris. Hi Chris, I've gone for a small overlap of 0.13mm, although I've done that by making the Cream line slightly wider than it's supposed to be. It's all very fine, and it looked to me like the cut in the Vinyl actually loses a little of the width. I think your idea is slightly better, but I've done the masks now, so I'll run with what I've got. You definitely need a slight overlap. |
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Post by chris vine on Sept 15, 2023 10:46:36 GMT
Or, on a completely different version:
You could separate two lines by perhaps 10thou ?microns! Then they would not interfere with each other and the positioning would be less critical.
The eye won't see the gap as it will discriminate the two contrasting lines instead. It would be interesting to find out how wide the gap would have to be to be noticeable. I would guess something like .25mm
Chris.
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Post by Roger on Sept 15, 2023 16:03:38 GMT
Or, on a completely different version: You could separate two lines by perhaps 10thou ?microns! Then they would not interfere with each other and the positioning would be less critical. The eye won't see the gap as it will discriminate the two contrasting lines instead. It would be interesting to find out how wide the gap would have to be to be noticeable. I would guess something like .25mm Chris. Hi Chris, The first test I did had the two masks exactly the same size, and it was surprising how much the very small gap showed because the contrast between the lines and the background was considerable. I think some sort of small overlap is essential else this is going to be an issue. |
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Post by Roger on Sept 17, 2023 20:31:56 GMT
Unfortunately, the backing on the transfer tape is too thick to be able to see the targets through it. I decided to cut through the backing on three of the targets so I could line it up. I'm using a light box that I used for Reverse Engineering Printed Circuit boards, so I can see where they are.  PXL_20230917_093547390 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr  PXL_20230917_094504547 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr I tried lining it up and hingeing the back, but it's still too difficult to see. There isn't a lot of contrast between the target and the hole. I really need to have a larger difference between the two, so there's always a noticeable gap that you can see. At the moment it's 0.1mm and it would be better if it was 0.4-0.5mm. At the moment, when it's perfectly aligned, you can't see anything. You might think that's a good thing, but it makes it hard to see what's going on.  PXL_20230917_095445849 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr In the end, I cut out a long strip of the backing so I could keep lifting and realigning it without disturbing the part where the line I'm trying to mask is.  PXL_20230917_100647374 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr It's not quite right, but it's close enough.  PXL_20230917_100659712 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr  PXL_20230917_101320733 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr  PXL_20230917_101427923 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr The second one was a bit easier.  PXL_20230917_103058320 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr  PXL_20230917_124428167 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr  PXL_20230917_124432452 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr  PXL_20230917_124438323 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr I left it about 6 hours and then carefully removed the masks.  PXL_20230917_201306155 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr I'm happy with that. It's not perfect, but it will be plenty good enough. I think I put a little too much paint on, and then left it too long before removing the mask.  PXL_20230917_201326157 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr I'll wait another few days and then do the really hard part, ie the Cream line. |
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,440
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Post by dscott on Sept 18, 2023 21:50:41 GMT
Sunday saw us in a model railway exhibition in Oxford where I had a hold of the new 1500 model in OO gauge.
The reviews are very complementary on it. Wow they are heavy and incredibly accurate.
1505 is sat paid for and just waiting for The Titfield Thunderbolt to arrive then they get posted down to us.
We have gone for early unlined.
Superb work as always roger.
David and Lily.
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Post by Roger on Sept 19, 2023 7:30:47 GMT
Sunday saw us in a model railway exhibition in Oxford where I had a hold of the new 1500 model in OO gauge. The reviews are very complementary on it. Wow they are heavy and incredibly accurate. 1505 is sat paid for and just waiting for The Titfield Thunderbolt to arrive then they get posted down to us. We have gone for early unlined. Superb work as always roger. David and Lily. Hi David, I saw that they were making the 1500, it certainly looked good on the review I saw pop up on my YouTube suggestion. |
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Post by Roger on Sept 19, 2023 19:49:57 GMT
I showed the Locomotive at the Burton Mill open day at the weekend. It's privately owned and lived in, has a Turbine and grinds Flour. He's also got a generator hooked up to the Turbine which he uses to charge his EV. You can't get much Greener than that. I got involved through my dear friend Bill because they were struggling with an overheating bearing. I managed to address that by machining the octagonal supporting block so that the bottom was true to the bore, it was miles out. We made an adjustable plate that was set into the bottom of the casting, out of sight, such that the octagonal block had something level to sit on. Everything has to be true to the fixed stone. There was also a lot of wear in the centre of the spherical bearing where it had run for years out of true, and created a large pip in the middle where there was a hole in the Male bearing shaft. I machined that away, and now it all runs nicely. These problems are really hard to figure out, because nothing is true and square, and you're not allowed to do anything that affects its listed condition. Anyway, I was invited to go along and be one of the side exhibits... well the Locomotive was. This is the first time I've taken the Locomotive anywhere since it was an unpainted chassis, so it was an ideal opportunity to do a dry run for the Midlands Show in October. The first step was to get the Locomotive onto the short track piece that fits the WorkMate. Getting the frame off the Locomotive without damaging the Buffers isn't easy, so I've 3D printed some protectors that cover them while I'm manouvering the frame around. I may alter the way this is done at some point.  PXL_20230915_195558977 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr The track piece is trapped by the clamping pieces, there are bars under them so it can't lift up. However, I'm not happy with how strong the WorkMate is, the thing sways around too much for my liking, and the Locomotive is going to get heavier. I knew this was an issue, and have looked into beefing it up but not done anything. So today I've ordered some 40mm x 20mm x 2mm thick Steel box section to replace the 0.7mm thick 30mm x 20mm section that it's made from. I've ordered enough to add more spacers which will be welded in place, rather than the flimsy parts doing that job now.  PXL_20230915_195605774 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr I also need to make a better support for the tailgate. It's probably not going to break, I can sit on it, but I'd rather there was something under it to take some of the load. Anyway, the Locomotive rolled into the Transit Frame nicely, although I did have to be careful to line up the rails.  PXL_20230916_080714304 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr The bridging rails hook onto the track that's attached to the WorkMate, so that can't come off.  PXL_20230916_080710778 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr I've now added an extra bar on the end, with a couple of tapered location pins to hold the two parts in line. I haven't used the full Keyhole arrangement, because I think it could end up being strained and difficult to take apart. Everything moves a little as the weight is transferred.  PXL_20230919_090158099 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr  PXL_20230919_090229161 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr I tried another version of the Whistle Servo Valve with an O-ring seal, but it still kept getting stuck open. I'm not sure whether that was just because it was an O-ring, or because the guiding part of the valve was binding in the hole. Anyway, I decided to address both possible causes in one iteration to see if I could crack on and get it working. The new design uses a PTFE valve and loose fitting sleeve. The sleeve is 5.5mm diameter in a 6mm hole, so there's no need for cutouts.  Servo with PTFE valve by Billy Roberts, on Flickr The ER16 collet chuck comes in handy when the 3-jaw chuck won't grip something that small. This is the hex going on.  PXL_20230919_145916848 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr  PXL_20230919_163239747 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr  PXL_20230919_163334855 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr This video shows the current state of play. It's much better, but is very much on or off. It also takes too long to close. I'll drill out the bleed valve hole and play with how quickly the Pilot Steam is released. The hole is obviously too small at the moment.  PXL_20230919_165017749.TS by Billy Roberts, on Flickr |
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Post by steamer5 on Sept 19, 2023 21:46:30 GMT
Hi Roger,
On your link span between your workmate & vehicle PLEASE put a support leg that is adjustable in height, fixed & pivotable to the span! Dad & I have had near misses with moving a loco between a simallar setup, we’re the workmate, in your case, starts to kick up at the back, mad panic kicks in real quick!
Your latest whistle valve is looking really great, it’s going to be interesting to see how it goes with a whistle attached.
Cheers Kerrin
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Post by doubletop on Sept 20, 2023 7:43:18 GMT
Hi Roger, On your link span between your workmate & vehicle PLEASE put a support leg that is adjustable in height, fixed & pivotable to the span! Dad & I have had near misses with moving a loco between a simallar setup, we’re the workmate, in your case, starts to kick up at the back, mad panic kicks in real quick! Your latest whistle valve is looking really great, it’s going to be interesting to see how it goes with a whistle attached. Cheers Kerrin Plus one for that. Visions of a jackknife occurring and hours of work on the floor. Even without the possibility of the setup folding I do not think I would trust a workmate. Get yourself a hydraulic lifting trolley with some rails bolted on. Pete |
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Post by Roger on Sept 20, 2023 7:55:50 GMT
Hi Roger, On your link span between your workmate & vehicle PLEASE put a support leg that is adjustable in height, fixed & pivotable to the span! Dad & I have had near misses with moving a loco between a simallar setup, we’re the workmate, in your case, starts to kick up at the back, mad panic kicks in real quick! Your latest whistle valve is looking really great, it’s going to be interesting to see how it goes with a whistle attached. Cheers Kerrin Thanks for that Kerrin, I'll do that. The way the bridge connects to the short track on the WorkMate prevents the back of the WorkMate from pivoting up, but an additional support makes sense anyway to spread the load. The Servo valve is definitely looking more promising. One issue is the really long run of very small pipe to the Servo valve, it's going to add a delay to the action. I may be able to reduce the volume it has to fill behind the diaphragm so it's less of a problem. I notice that in the original concept that I borrowed this from, they expected the exhaust to go back to the Pilot valve. Maybe they had a larger diameter pipe for the Pilot, and it didn't have as much resistance as mine. I'd rather keep it small if I can, it's less conspicuous. There's still a way to go before I'm happy with it. |
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Post by Roger on Sept 20, 2023 7:59:30 GMT
Hi Roger, On your link span between your workmate & vehicle PLEASE put a support leg that is adjustable in height, fixed & pivotable to the span! Dad & I have had near misses with moving a loco between a simallar setup, we’re the workmate, in your case, starts to kick up at the back, mad panic kicks in real quick! Your latest whistle valve is looking really great, it’s going to be interesting to see how it goes with a whistle attached. Cheers Kerrin Plus one for that. Visions of a jackknife occurring and hours of work on the floor. Even without the possibility of the setup folding I do not think I would trust a workmate. Get yourself a hydraulic lifting trolley with some rails bolted on. Pete The WorkMate is going to be massively beefed up, I'm sure it will be fine in its rebuilt form. I'll definitely add a leg to the bridge though. Sadly I don't have the space for anything like a lifting trolley, it has to be something that can be put away. The WorkMate is really useful for other things too, it's just feeble at the moment, like most modern things. They use as little metal in them as possible. Look as how skinny a 2 Ton jack is these days compared to how they used to be. |
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Post by Roger on Sept 20, 2023 15:20:31 GMT
Now for the tricky bit, getting the Cream mask to line up with the targets.  PXL_20230920_093356516 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr This is as good as I can get it. I'd like it to be closer, but it's really hard to get them all right.  PXL_20230920_093409712 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr  PXL_20230920_093632208 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr Anyway, it might be good enough, and I didn't think I can do any better if I started again, so here goes.  PXL_20230920_104951534 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr  PXL_20230920_104954276 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr The alignment targets were tricky to get off without damaging the paint. I pressed against the edge of them with a finger nail, and let the adhesive give enough to lift the edge. You can see where they all were because of the glue residues, one from the Mask, and a different one from the Transfer Tape. The Transfer Tape has been pressed onto the surface three times, whereas the dots have only been on there once. The glue ought to be easy enough to polish off. I'll have to do a test and see if the Label Remover liquid can be used, or whether it attacks the paint.  PXL_20230920_150232968 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr Anyway, I'm happy with that, it's a lot better than I could hope to do with a pen. The Cream line is a little over scale, but it will do. The main thing is that there's no gap between the Cream and Grey lines, and none of it needs touching up. I'm very impressed with the Masking Vinyl sheet, there hasn't been one place where the paint has bled under it.  PXL_20230920_150304693 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr Once hardened and the glue cleaned off, it just remains to apply the BR Lion Transfer. |
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PXL_20230913_200419152 by Billy Roberts, on Flickr
