5 inch Gauge 9F

[92220]

No they were made from single sheets according to the works drawings. Those welds are not consistent with manufacturing a fabrication either. There are just not enough welds for the stretcher to have been a welded fabrication. It was a lot cheaper to flame cut the sheets of 1/2" steel plate than cut lots of sections and then weld them up, with the added risk (certainty) of heat distortion.

[Deleted]

I reckon those bolted plates are a preservation thing. They look too clean and crisp to be the originals, which would have been heavily corroded after sitting under layers of wet grot in the sea air at Barry. 92207 moved around several sites before finishing up at Shillingstone, so who knows what might have been done previously. Whoever fitted the plates was good at welding, but had no capability for hot rivetting.

Ron

[92220]

Sounds a logical possibility Ron.

[vulcanbomber]

Well, another big gap between update but i've been very busy at work, and when im not working, im busy making some bits for some land rover friends.. Anyway, work has gone quiet now... Always does this time of year, do dad has had literally nothing to do, and amazingly my boss gave the ok for some 9F to be done in works time!

so, we have been concentrating on the rear drag box for now.

first thing he did was to finish the main block that Ed started for me many moons ago.



and then he made the lid for it.



the holes are for dowls to line them up for welding, welder friend Domonic has that job to do along with the previous mensioned land rover bits.



He has then drilled location holes for the bits that make up the front end of the drag box. The profile was laser cut for me by Malcolm





the holes are all 1mm diameter.

he has then made a start on the rear brake cylinder bracket, this doesn’t exist in full size but ive had to incorporate it because I have used Les Warnetts design at the front and i don’t want 2 odd brake cylinders.... Wont be seen when the model has a cab on it so I wont tell if you wont.

We decided the easiest way was to mill a profile onto some round bar and part them off on the lathe later.



And I parted them off before home time tonight.





I/dad will tart these up on the surface grinder.... just because we can and then yep, 1mm holes to be drilled for location dowls when there welded/soldered.

We have also made up some gussets for the vertical stretchers i’ve been working on, hopefully i’ll be able to get the stretchers and drag box welded up at the same time.

More next week I really hope!

[92220]

It's coming on well! Just one question though - You say that you are only putting the rear brake cylinder in because Les Warnett has shown it but you don't think that it existed on the 9Fs. Where did this information come from? As far as I understand it, the rear brake cylinder is fitted on all of them according to the BR drawing SL/BR/924, Arrangement of Brake Gear, that I have. It references All standard and Crosti 9Fs, so your loco will be prototypical with the cylinder. I've attached photos I took of the rear brake cylinder under Evening Star which may be of interest. The front brake cylinder, operates the brakes on the front 4 coupled wheels, and the rear brake cylinder operates the brakes on the rear 6 wheels. There is a further brake cylinder underneath the front dragbox of the tender too, making 3 brake cylinders on all 9Fs. Hope that reassures you that you are correct in fitting the cylinder to the rear loco dragbox.

[vulcanbomber]

Sorry if it wasn't clear, I was referring to the brackets that the rear cylinder on my model will refer to, on the original there mounted through the front of the drag box and are rigid... The Warnett design mounts them through either side and allows them to rock slightly for and aft as they work.

I have almost identical pictures of 92212 from 2 or 3 years back.

[92220]

Thanks for that. Now I understand. I haven't read all the Warnett articles as I don't have a complete set. From what you describe, I'm guessing his brake cylinder piston and rod are rigid instead of having a separate piston and connecting rod, as full-size. Keep up the good work, and the build diary.

[vulcanbomber]

Another update on the 9F, we have almost finished making a kit of parts for the Rear Drag Box.
All that needs doing now is the rear plate, we just need to drill 4 dowl holes to locate it for welding, then I need to fit it all together with lots of little bits of 1mm silver steel.


The main block has been welded and the edges tidied back up, i haven’t got an individual pic of this due to me rushing around.
Now the reason we havnt finished the last bit of that puzzle is because the Pro has been parked up for a week we decided it would be better to make use of that, so i’ve dragged the Horizontal stretchers I started over a year ago.




And naturally, an action shot.



The reason we wanted these on the Pro is because theres a fair bit of material to shift and it runs on its own for long periods, hopefully next week will see the gussets for the Vertical Stretchers finished and the End Plate for the Drag Box Completed ready for the welding Session.

More soon we hope.

[vulcanbomber]

Another exciting update for the little 9F, so we finished the last update with much progress on the horizontal stretchers.... Well, today we update with a lot more!

To machine the 2nd side of the stretcher I had to make a fixture and come up with a way of holding the stretcher to the fixture, after much discussion we decided that countersunk bolts in holes drilled where the pockets would be was the most logical answer so the stretchers were drilled and countersunk for M6 bolts and then clamped to the fixture.






I then failed miserably to get a picture of the middle milled out.

The next job was mill the pockets out and drill any required holes... same fixture was used with clamps this time just nipped down on the edge.



And at home time tonight we had this.



Very chuffed with the outcome.... these are 1.5mm thick, at true scale it would be 1.12mm. These will now need the rivet holes adding on either side and either end. My current plan is to finish off the last bit for the Rear drag box and also the last gussets I need for the vertical stretchers so i can get them welded up, and then i will get back onto these.

[Roger]

Looking good Dave. I like your long reach skinny clamps, I could use to make some like that.

[vulcanbomber]

There just some we have knocking about at work.... most of our clamps follow function over form. They are very helpful in that they have a lip on them where they fit onto the job so you dont push them on to far. They have tapped holes in the back end for a heel pin or a small step that can have a bit of packing under to act as a heel pin.

[Doug]

Awsome stuff, surely you can't have many more stretchers to make. Your frames are going to look amazing  

[vulcanbomber]

Thanks Doug, as well as the ones you have seen, I have a vertical stretcher that sits on top of one of these. The smoke box saddle, a stretcher that sits in front of the firebox and one that supports the boiler just behind the smoke box. I also will need to do the horns before the frames can go together.. Oh and the front drag box.

[vulcanbomber]

Evening one and all.
A nice little update this evening to show 4 finished Horizontal Stretchers.
I used the same fixture to hold them for drilling the side holes, i mounted the fixture to the angle plate.





And i turned the fixture 90 degrees to finish off with the end holes.

The finished items are thus.









And i attended the Midland ME show on the Sunday, seeing a couple of completed 5 inch 9F’s. First off 92220 Evening Star.



And this one of 92240


92240 Is at the bluebell line awaiting overhaul.


Oh and I should report the monumental cock up i made on the rear drag box.... Having picked the wrong line up on the cad when I got the bits laser cut, the side plates were cut 2mm to short... Its no surprise it wouldn't all fit together. Still, new bits are on order.

[92220]

Looking good David! Will look 'the bee's knees' when all put together! Riveting all the stretchers in is quite a task. You will need some long and heavy duty rivet sets to hold the rivet heads inside the frames. I used a couple of 1.1/2" x 1/2" mild steel bars and formed a 3/32" rivet snap at the ends and then machined away metal until they would fit into the awkward places and support the rivets; then some means of supporting the frames as you go along.

One thing I did find when doing any riveting - almost all the iron rivets, one buys these days, are rusty. NOT good on a model loco!! I have a 1 litre screw top plastic tub and a handful of blasting sand and a half a dozen old 1/2" nuts. A handful of rivets in the pot and held in the chuck I run it at a backgeared speed that will just allow the nuts to tumble - just like a small ball mill. After around an hour, the rivets are completely free of rust and ready to use. One precaution - take the saddle right to the far end of the lathe bed and cover the bedways with kitchen roll to catch any odd bits of grit off the outside of the tub.

[vulcanbomber]

I'll be happy if it's half as good as yours Bob!

Thanks for the heads up with the rivets, it has crossed my mind to turn my own at work, one of our little CNC Lathes should be able to turn 1 complete in under a minute.

[vulcanbomber]

Evening readers,
Lots to see this evening, you’ll be pleased to know. I was hoping to have updated you before now but sadly one of my dogs went missing last week and looking for her was far more important than trying to entertain you lot.

At the end of the last update I had just finished the 4 Horizontal stretchers so it was time to do something else, I have still got some fiddly little gussets to finish off for the 2 Vertical Stretchers, not being in the frame of mind I found something a little bigger.... So I have started the 2 big Gussets that sit between the outside of the frames and the back of the Front Buffer Beam. I suppose the best thing at this point is to show you the full size item, so once again, a Picture from 92220 Evening Star.



The original is made from 2 bits of folded 1/2inch plate welded together; I’ve gone for machining from 1 solid piece to sneak a little more weight into the frames.

I’ve not pictured the fist couple of ops, you’ve all seen me hold a piece of steel in a vice and mill around it, which is basically what i did to start with... that produced this after they had been milled to thickness.... the 2 holes are reamed for potential use for fixturing for later on.



I then milled around the 2 working faces adding the corner rads and the rad that goes through the corner cut out and drilled the rivet holes.



Next came something a bit cleverer, i needed to finish the angled face in the corner cut out, to make life easy the angle was 51.75 degrees..... Fortunately, we have just the tool for this at work, it’s a tip up V block



This goes together in the Vice like so



The roller serves 2 purposes (its the remains of a bearing and for an idea of size is 1 5/16ths diameter, 1) it backs the Vice jaw to clamp a solid part of the job and 2) is gives me something sensible and reliable to get at with the wobbler (also in the picture) to set a datum. I have then, on my CAD drawn up everything to tell me where all the edges are, The cad looks something like this



Then it’s just a case of throwing a cutter into the machine and milling through the slot.




And in other news, I sent some time back the Stretcher the Pony Truck pivots off to Ed for a couple of bits of soldering , I haven’t got any pics but he has now done this and tonight he’ll be shot blasting it for me so I can ream the last hole in it and mill the mounting pads down to size.

Thanks for looking.

[92220]

Nice bit of machining there David!

[vulcanbomber]

I've made some more progress with my Buffer Beam Gussets.

First job after the last update was to Mill the top to match the bottom, i havn't photographed that because they are identical.

Then, it was time to mill the pockets in. Incidentally this is the same setup as milling the top, the packer is an old 2 inch slip.






The pockets are 9mm deep.

Ive still got to put the pockets in to the Gusset for the other side but unfortunately the machine will be commandeered in the morning to mill some spanner flats on some adapters i'm turning at the minute... 3" AF!!

However, normal service will be resumed after they are finished.

[vulcanbomber]

A quick update tonight just to show the Pony Truck Pivot Stretcher now it has returned from Ed's shed for soldering.





This will now need the bronze bush in the center reaming to size along with the bolting pads in the 2nd picture and finally the silver seel locating pegs need drilling through because they are in fact bolt holes.

And Remember the cock up on the Rear Drag Box??? I now have the replacement laser cuttings.




Looks like we know what is happening when the Buffer Beam Gussets are finished.