Is it a GWR 4500 Class

[GWR 101]

Firstly apologies for the quality of the photo, but I didn't take it as I am standing on the footplate having just had a ride up and down the platform. I know the station is in St Ives, Cornwall at the end of the branch line, also it was taken in early August 1958. From what I have found to date if it is a 4500 class it can only be either 4540,4545 or 4574 as these were based at Penzance the other 71 having been withdrawn. I am intending to build a loco in the near future and think this would make a good project in 5", I believe there is one in Bridgnorth (4566) which is local so that would help. Does any one know of any suitable plans that might be available, I have checked some of the likely sources with no success, thanks in advance. Paul

[marshall5]

It is a 45xx class. In 5" gauge you could use the 'Firefly' drawings and castings but fit it with the earlier parallel sided tanks. Firefly was based on the later 4575 class with larger side tanks. Hope this helps. Ray.

[GWR 101]

Thanks Ray, I looked at that in the Reeves Catalogue and thought it looked similar, my edition states they don't offer castings for a 5" version, assume I can get round that some way. Many thanks it's always good to get another persons view. Paul

[Rex Hanman]

"Firefly" is 3 1/2", and as you say Reeves don't do castings for a 5" version. I've seen several 5" models around so presumably someone might do castings.

[Deleted]

GLR Kennions show a 5" Firefly on their homepage so probably worth giving them a ring for info on castings etc.

John

[Deleted]

Don't forget the 4575 class also had a taller cab than the original 4500.

[GWR 101]

Thanks to you all most helpful, just come off the phone from Richard at GLR and they are posting their catalogue to me. They were most helpful and have stated that most castings are in stock, will hopefully order a set of drawings over the weekend, I can then sit by the fireside over the winter and decide on a plan of action. Once again many thanks to you all. Paul

[dinmoremanor]

If you are wanting to make a reasonably accurate model then worth noting that the Martin Evans drawing shows the pole reverser to be on the L/H side, the regulator opening clockwise and the water gauge on the wrong side, so worth noting those inaccuracies early on when drilling frames for the reverser, constructing the weighbar shaft and building the boiler. You see many of the 4575 variant modelled but very few of the flat top 4500 variety, a friend of mine has a lovely model of 4566.

[GWR 101]

Thanks for that insight, I have already spoken to Severn Valley this afternoon and they have been running 4566 this last weekend and expect to use it again shortly, they have explained where I can get the info on which locos are running when. Looks like the Grand kids will be getting a trip to see the Santa Special and of course I will have to take them armed with a camera. Paul

[jma1009]

i would endorse dinmoremanor's comments - the backhead and reverser arrangement on FIREFLY is atrocious as is the stupid clutch arrangement on the handbrake. martin evans designed the 5"g and 3.5"g versions alongside each other. externally the design is ok but internally it is one of his early designs and leaves a lot to be desired and a lot to be improved upon. the 5"g tube arrangement is pretty awful and can be considerably improved upon IMHO. dont be a slave to the drawings on this one!
cheers,
julian

[GWR 101]

Thanks Julian, I am looking forward to the challenge. I will probably order the drawings at the weekend. My aim is to study these with some photos of 4566 during the winter months whilst I finish my present project and decide if I have sufficient knowledge /ability to deviate from the drawings and by how much.
cheers
Paul

[jma1009]

hi paul,
if you need any help in suggestions in improving on the FIREFLY design let us know!
martin evans came in for an awful lot of stick over the details of this design at the time!
he acknowledged this subsequently.
why anyone would assume a left hand reverser and a backhead that resembles nothing like fullsize should be easier to 'operate' amazed everyone at the time, and martin evans never repeated his mistakes on subsequent GWR locos he designed!
cheers,
julian

[Deleted]

Hello all------------HI JULIET 2, .......Paul, you are always welcome to call-in at my place here in TELFORD to talk GWR, 5"gauge and live steam in general......contact me via PM if you like ??

[GWR 101]

Many thanks for that generous offer, when the going gets tough as it inevitably will at some time I will almost certainly be in touch. Paul

[Deleted]

Happy to help----------there's also the local Model Engineering Club now based at the Horsehay Steam Railway Centre ( Ex-Phonix ME Soc....I was a member for some time, then CHILDREN appeared !!--- and you all know the rest !!)........This might help>>>>>>>>>> www.greatwestern.org.uk/m_in_262_4500.htm.............They share the same main driving wheel as the 28xx and, I believe the same crosshead as the 4-cyl locos ie the lighter version..... Pony wheels etc are also "stock" GWR items..........

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[GWR 101]

Once again many thanks, I have started a list of things to consider, will then make some notes when I get the drawings hopefully next week. As 4566 is not far away I hope to use that as a guide, I have looked on the web already and there is some info regarding SVR casting some buffer housings so I hope to get some good detail. I know that sounds a bit in front but I hope to build up a file over the winter / spring as I do not expect to cut metal before May / June. My plan is to try and have everything in place on paper whilst still finishing my present build, what is it they say about multi tasking, I find I can manage two things at the same time but one has to be breathing. Paul

[Deleted]

Ah !!..multi-tasking indeed....Joyce says I can manage to muck up 2 things at once !! Well, that HAS to be an improvement on only one thing at once , eh ??.......I'm not sure who's running the pattern shop at B'north these days but if you ask for either JOHN ROBINSON or GRAHAME NANGREAVES they should be able to help you ( Mention Alan Redgrave and you might get the help required OR frog-marched off the premises LoL !!!)........Have a look at the 5" GWR stuff that POLLY are producing....

[jma1009]

hi paul,

see if you can get a copy of Jim Russell's book vol 2 'a pictorial record of Great Western Engines' OPC. there are 10 pages on the 44XX and 45xx and varients. only difference between the 44XX and 45XX was wheel diameter.

Reeves may not list the 5"g version, but they do the wheel castings, and many other parts/castings are the same as other 5"g GWR locos they do list.

i think ive a full construction series from my collection of MEs. well worth obtaining. your club should have all the back copies.

cheers,
julian

[Deleted]

----------- they did have vols 1 & 2 in the book shop at Kidder station....That's where I got mine from......Ditto those wheel castings from REEVES...my 28xx ones came from them at HALF PRICE !!

[jma1009]

alan,
how did you manage half price castings!

paul,
of course really you ought to have a combined smokebox/cylinder casting in 2 halves! and slotted frames at the front to accept the cylinders! if you want to draw a line between the martin evans design and fullsize this might be the place to draw it!

cheers,
julian