Kane
Active Member
Posts: 14
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Post by Kane on Sept 5, 2004 12:29:41 GMT
hello all im pretty new to ME ...well engineering in general so go easy on me  i started building a simplex loco and have now progressed onto where i need to use the lathe (making the waterpump). In particular need to know a bit about what sort of tools to use for different metals and the different tools for different operations. However after trying to machine the outside of the pump housing on the lathe with very little knowledge, it didnt really turn out that great. So i was also thinking about building a small 1-2cc "diesel" engine like the one featured on this page archive.dstc.edu.au/BDU/staff/ron/cardfile/midge.htmlthis would mean i could gain experience and if i make a mess up ...it's just a cheap lump of metal so i can afford a few mistakes  So does anybody know any websites where i could learn about the different tools/methods for lathe work? If not what would be some good books to have a read through? And if anybody else has any other ideas of small projects that are good to get used to lathe work. Thanks Alot Kane |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2004 18:32:43 GMT
Hi, Hmm … bit difficult to say what went so wrong with the axle pump from the e mail and pity it did go wrong. Knowing the Simplex, build one, there must be other places to practice your shills a bit. The buffers come to mind. Quite straight forward work and in a much more forgiving metal, plain steel. I guess the axle pump body was in, one of the most dreadful metals I know, gunmetal. ;D There is a lot to be said and a lot more written about lathe tools and for a beginner there is a nice series of books covering nearly ever aspect of ME. It’s the workshop series I think printed by Nexus now. Camden bookshop, they have a web page, can surely help you. On the net a site worth visiting is www.alanstepney.info All relevant info for ME on one page, well actually a lot of pages so take your time. A petrol engine looks quite a bit more simple but takes a fair bit of precision to get it working. I am not saying it is impossible for a beginner but the goal lies quite a bit higher. Also the one you propose is a “diesel” and a very small one so some parts are extreme small. If you decide to go on with the Simplex have a look at my pages. By the way, and this is for the other list members, when I opened this new tread message on top it showed read 10 times ? Wonder where the reply’s went … Remember there are no stupid questions and we all did ask them ourselves when we set of in ME Regards Wilfried Vermeiren users.skynet.be/modelbouw.wilfried |
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Post by alanstepney on Sept 6, 2004 0:39:19 GMT
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Post by Roger Mason on Sept 6, 2004 8:23:05 GMT
Hi Kane,
The following is an unashamed plug for Dad's book!
You might like to get hold of a copy of "Using the Small Lathe" by L.C. Mason (Len Mason). It contains quite a lot of information on tools and the various shapes and uses of them. It doesn't have tables of ideal angles, as that is more appropriate to production turning, but it does show you the shapes of the most common tools.
People tell me that this book has helped them enormously to understand how to tackle the various jobs that the 'small lathe' is asked to undertake.
I believe that it is still in print and obtainable from either Tee Publishing or Camden.
Perhaps I should add that I have no financial interest in the book now - 'Tee' get all the profits now!!
Cheers,
Roger Mason, in St. Agnes.
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Post by Tel on Sept 6, 2004 8:56:25 GMT
I'll second that most enthusiasticly Roger - Len's book is a real goldmine for anyone wanting to learn, and for us old codgers wanting to refresh our brain cell from time to time.
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Kane
Active Member
Posts: 14
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Post by Kane on Sept 6, 2004 10:10:40 GMT
thanks for the responses
i think i will have to purchase the book "Using the Small Lathe" it seems like just what i need, and its pretty cheap at that.
after reading about the combustion engines, it looks like they need more precision than steam engines to be able to work properly, so i'm still on the lookout for other simple projects.
Kane
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jackrae
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,335
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Post by jackrae on Sept 6, 2004 10:53:35 GMT
Without wishing to over-simplify things why not try what most of us do anyways
Put bits of metal in lathe and make swarf
You might not produce much but you'll self-learn one or two things along the way
Whilst I find working to a cook-book set of instructions useful for producing a finished article with minimum waste, it cannot replace the sense of achievement you get from "!discovering" something for yourself
happy turning
jack
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Post by jbuckley on Sept 7, 2004 20:45:51 GMT
Kane,
May I add my two cents worth here and suggest that you gisn experience by building things that you can use in the workshop. There are many items of tooling that you will find usefull during your ME career. George Thomas' book has a number of items from setting up aids, which I can highly recommend , as well as boring bar systems which again are very usefull.
Regards,
John
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Kane
Active Member
Posts: 14
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Post by Kane on Sept 25, 2004 19:27:10 GMT
thanks for the replies.
I've just ordered the "Using the Small Lathe" book.
Delivery expected within 2-4 weeks (suppose its worth waiting for)
in the meanwhile i've been experimenting with different tools/materials and have found a pretty good tool which i can use to turn stainless steel (for my feed pump).
But i have a quick question (rather than opening a new thread).
The piece i am trying to turn is around 3" in length. And while trying to turn it i thought i had a duff piece of metal with hard spots but as i got close to the chuck it seemed to be fine. So i think its because its too long without a 'steady?' at the other side.
I tried to move the tailstock over to hold the other side but the cross-slide touched the edge and so i couldnt get in close enough to machine the material.
I know the simplest solution would be to get some longer metal and start again. But is there anyway i can hold the other end of this shortish piece to stop it wobbling?
thanks alot
Kane
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2004 6:30:08 GMT
Hi, From reading you report I would say you definitely need some support 3” overhang is way to much. Even on much thicker material as the pump ram? So the option is to mount some sort of running support, steady ? ( sorry my English fails to find the right word ) or to bring up the tailstock and support the work with a centre. Indeed most of the time the top slide fouls the tailstock on thin work pieces. The solution is to mount the tool with a lot more overhang, take small cuts and use the sturdiest tool you have. Or make up a lengthened centre for the tailstock. Also most centres are way to thick for our needs. If it is a non revolving you can grind part of the side of the tip away to make more space for the tool or, my solution make a extended thinner one. Also most revolving centres are way to massive. Better to make your own to a more suitable ME size. There are a few designs around for this and it might even be possible there is one as an exercise in the book you are waiting for. Regards Wilfried Vermeiren users.skynet.be/modelbouw.wilfried |
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Kane
Active Member
Posts: 14
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Post by Kane on Sept 26, 2004 11:15:14 GMT
hi wilfred, a longer center is just what i am looking for, the idea never crossed my mind . i think that will be the plan of action for today ;D although i dont think i have any large enough spare material for that job. Would you think it would be possible to turn a smaller one and then mount it in the drill chuck i have for the tailstock. Or would it be better to go out and find some larger material? thanks alot Kane |
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Post by davidimurray on Sept 26, 2004 13:18:33 GMT
Kane For some interesting stuff have a look at the Virtual Machine Shop - www.jjjtrain.com/vms/index.html - look in the library under Engine Lathe. Lots of interesting stuff and includes videos. Enjoy Dave |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2004 19:53:53 GMT
Problem is drill chucks are rarely precise. So unless it is a relative new one you are in for some trouble. You could give it a try but it is a matter of alignment. Fix one up and turn the whole length of a piece of bar stock and see if there is difference in diameter between front and back end. Most likely you will find the piece is tapered. If this is the case - bad idea be course to correct this you will need to set over the tailstock. My advice don’t leave as it is and go out for an suitable piece of bar to make a centre. Remember this will need to be hardened or else be very careful and keep the speed at which you turn within reason, use a lubricant in the centre hole and check regularly. Another idea. Say the tailstock is MK2 look around for a reduction sleeve MK1-MK2 and use a MK1 centre. The centre comes out more from the tailstock, not much but perhaps just enough, and is smaller in diameter as an MK2. If the tailstock is MK3 you could get even a greater distance. All this supposing you have the tools. Regards Wilfried Vermeiren users.skynet.be/modelbouw.wilfried |
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Kane
Active Member
Posts: 14
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Post by Kane on Oct 18, 2004 14:13:43 GMT
;D
the book arrived the other day and so have read it through a few times.
I highly recommend it to all beginners
Went out into the workshop earlier to put my new knowledge to the test.
I had previsouly had problems turning stainless steel, i think the problem was basically CRAP TOOLS. As they were all ones that came with the lathe and were a bit 'tatty' to say the least.
Anyway .... looking through the tool box...i found a piece of HSS (i think) and it was fairly long and only one side had been shaped. So i thought i might as well have a go at making my own cutting tool.
So i ground only a small angle at the front and on top ...and sharpened the cutting edge on a grinding block.
Put the thing in the lathe with a scrap bit of stainless steel.
I wasnt expecting much to say the least,
well i was simply amazed... before there was a horrible screeching noise etc ... well now it cut through it like butter.
And gave a brilliant mirror finish.... i am so happy ;D
Thanks alot guys
Kane
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Post by johnk411510 on Oct 20, 2004 20:01:18 GMT
hello all im pretty new to ME ...well engineering in general so go easy on me i started building a simplex loco and have now progressed onto where i need to use the lathe (making the waterpump). In particular need to know a bit about what sort of tools to use for different metals and the different tools for different operations. However after trying to machine the outside of the pump housing on the lathe with very little knowledge, it didnt really turn out that great. So i was also thinking about building a small 1-2cc "diesel" engine like the one featured on this page archive.dstc.edu.au/BDU/staff/ron/cardfile/midge.htmlthis would mean i could gain experience and if i make a mess up ...it's just a cheap lump of metal so i can afford a few mistakes So does anybody know any websites where i could learn about the different tools/methods for lathe work? If not what would be some good books to have a read through? And if anybody else has any other ideas of small projects that are good to get used to lathe work. Thanks Alot Kane |
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Post by johnk411510 on Oct 20, 2004 20:14:03 GMT
Yes, just putting a piece of metal in the lathe and experimenting with it cam be the best teacher. That's all I have done, and now I am building Rob Roy, a 3 1/2'' steam loco. I won't say everything has turned out perfect every time, but you learn by your mistakes.
Can anyone out there tell me where I can download dimensioned drawings of the Midge Diesel engine? It is something I would like to try for a vintage style plane I have half built.
Regards,
John King
New Zealand.
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IP
Involved Member
Posts: 72
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Post by IP on Oct 31, 2004 9:26:28 GMT
kane,
All of the advice offered to date is good but I would suggets looking for a night school class and also try and get hold of some old copies of the Model Engineer magazine........ones carrying articles by LBSC.......they are wonderful to read, they are easy to read, they are full of advice on how to make things and in the main concentrate on locomotive construction.
Regards,
IP
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Post by Phil Sutton on Oct 31, 2004 17:21:18 GMT
Hi.
Perhaps you could try borrowing any of LBSC's books (Shop,Shed and Road springs to mind),from your local Library.If they don't have it in stock,no doubt they can order it for you,usually for a small fee,75p in Derbyshire.
Phil
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