denis M
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Post by denis M on Dec 11, 2013 0:17:21 GMT
Anyone know where I may be able to get hold of some 1' x 1/16th spring steel to make some leaf springs with ?
Regards
Denis
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Post by ettingtonliam on Dec 11, 2013 9:22:47 GMT
is that size right Dennis? One foot x 5/8"? That's massive!
Richard
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Post by Rex Hanman on Dec 11, 2013 9:40:56 GMT
I am just making the leaf springs for my 7 1/4" GWR large prairie. I needed 10 metres of 5/8" x 16swg strip. The drawing specified phosphor bronze but thinking this would be too expensive I looked for spring steel. Enquiries at (IIRC) Blackgates or College Engineering revealed that I could get it but it was sheared from a sheet. I wanted better edges, plus it only came in 12" lengths. I preferred it on a coil. I had a choice of hardened or not. A friend suggested Milton Keynes Metals. Their website listed it in 1 metre lengths but at £24/mtr. Ouch!  Ian Holder pointed me in the direction of M Machine in Durham. Really helpful guy, Andy I think, supplied me with 10 mtres of Phosphor bronze, delivered (300 miles) for £90. The big advantage of using pb is that you can drill it and no heat treatment is required.  I thought the springs might be too soft but having made them I think they might be too stiff! I assume, unless you are building in full size, that you didn't mean 5/8" thick?   I believe Reeves 2000 also have some Spring steel. Edit:- Ah! 1 foot x 5/8" wide, I misread it as 1 inch by 5/8th!  What thickness? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2013 9:58:45 GMT
that's a lovely pair of springs that you have made there Rex,, Pete |
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denis M
Part of the e-furniture
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Post by denis M on Dec 11, 2013 9:59:16 GMT
All,
Old age creeping in.
Really really sorry, got my measurements mixed up, I also want some 1' X 5/8" bar.
Spring steel should be 1" x 1/16th, need around 3 metres of it.
Denis
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Post by Rex Hanman on Dec 11, 2013 12:03:46 GMT
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denis M
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 300
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Post by denis M on Dec 11, 2013 20:10:06 GMT
Rex,
Many thanks, I never thought of M-Machine but spoke to them today and they have it in stock so will be placing an order tomorrow with sone other things I need.
Denis
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Post by Rex Hanman on Dec 11, 2013 23:01:55 GMT
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wiltsrob
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Post by wiltsrob on Dec 12, 2013 20:44:14 GMT
doug hewson also supplies spring steel at reasonable rates... I got all mine for the wagon builds from him
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Post by ejparrott on Dec 21, 2013 9:34:17 GMT
En42 I think. Unfortunately Doug doesn't stock the size of spring steel I need for my Manning Wardle...and I'm not keen on buying 750Kgs of the stuff!
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,922
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Post by jma1009 on Dec 21, 2013 10:56:43 GMT
ive recently been sent some 1/14" x 1/32" x 12" strips of spring steel that a friend bought for me at the sandown show. ive been after some for awhile. it appears to be quite flexible, easily rolled and bright. i presume it is in an annealed state? to finish do i heat to red, quench, then temper to blue and quench again? any advice and tips gratefully received! i havent come across spring steel in its 'soft' state before.
cheers,
julian
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Post by Rex Hanman on Dec 21, 2013 11:13:01 GMT
Try drilling it. If it drills easily it's soft and will need hardening and tempering. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 12:07:21 GMT
Hi JULIAN---------- do you have access to an induction furnace of some description ?? ---- Be easy to do a job-lot and get the right temp. as well-------------just a thought.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 13:20:23 GMT
ive recently been sent some 1/14" x 1/32" x 12" strips of spring steel that a friend bought for me at the sandown show. ive been after some for awhile. it appears to be quite flexible, easily rolled and bright. i presume it is in an annealed state? to finish do i heat to red, quench, then temper to blue and quench again? any advice and tips gratefully received! i havent come across spring steel in its 'soft' state before. cheers, julian Hi Julian I can't remember exactly what I did for 4472's tender springs but having just reread the relevant pages and also my threads asking for help I can state roughly what I did. The annealed spring material was cut to size, preformed using a wooden former to it's 1/4 camber and then heat treated, I can't find the exact method that I used for heating but do recall following Tel's advice on placing the shaped springs into a tin with tallow that was ignited. I think the theory was this brings the springs to the correct temperature for quenching,,,, problem is I can't remember if I followed this process in it's entirety, I certainly remember trying it. I think that the tallow stage was after the initial hardening stage but perhaps best check with Tel or others first. What I can say with some confidence is what ever I did do worked very well, perfect in fact... cheers Pete edit: ahh just remembered where the info was from Tel.. in my inbox..lol I'm sure Tel won't mind me repeating what he sent me here....quote: Yo Pete, the way I usually do it is to give the spring a good coat of tallow and burn it off with a propane torch held well back so it is just serving to ignite the stuff rather than apply any direct heat. Another way is to cover the item in a shallow tray (tin lid or similar) and light it and allow to burn off. In either case, quench it when the flames go out. With tallow being not so easy to access these days, you can use 'Frytol' or some other proprietary solidified frying agent, they all seem to give similar results. |
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Post by ejparrott on Dec 21, 2013 15:26:23 GMT
ive recently been sent some 1/14" x 1/32" x 12" strips of spring steel that a friend bought for me at the sandown show. ive been after some for awhile. it appears to be quite flexible, easily rolled and bright. i presume it is in an annealed state? to finish do i heat to red, quench, then temper to blue and quench again? any advice and tips gratefully received! i havent come across spring steel in its 'soft' state before. cheers, julian Doug Hewson describes exactly as you say. He heats to red and quenches in water, then polishes the top leave, heat to blue and quench in oil. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 17:57:03 GMT
ive recently been sent some 1/14" x 1/32" x 12" strips of spring steel that a friend bought for me at the sandown show. ive been after some for awhile. it appears to be quite flexible, easily rolled and bright. i presume it is in an annealed state? to finish do i heat to red, quench, then temper to blue and quench again? any advice and tips gratefully received! i havent come across spring steel in its 'soft' state before. cheers, julian Doug Hewson describes exactly as you say. He heats to red and quenches in water, then polishes the top leave, heat to blue and quench in oil. ahh yes that's it Ed... red , water and then blue and oil.. I think the point of using tallow is that it takes it to blue but no further,, like I say my memory is poor... I do remember using Oil though as I still have the jar in my heating area.. I seem to recall using a mineral oil with high carbon content. Pete |
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Post by GWR 101 on Dec 21, 2013 21:34:24 GMT
We used Whale oil back in the 60's with some good results, assume there must be modern oils designed for the purpose these days, with inbuilt flame retardent's. We used to get some spectacular flash flames as the piece entered the tank so extreme care was required. We also avoided undertaking at lunch times as the aroma was not appreciated with ones sarnie's. Paul
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,922
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Post by jma1009 on Dec 22, 2013 0:40:05 GMT
thanks Rex, pete, ed, paul and alan for your advice. many thanks and much appreciated.
i havent got an induction furnace or any whales to harpoon. (erm.. did think of a pun re whales -v- wales but though better of it).
thanks Rex the spring steel drills very easily so must be annealed.
now for the tricky part!
i dont envisage a problem making the loco springs for STEPNEY with same, however the LBSCR wagon springs top leaf are proving troublesome. for those familiar with such things (which i was completely ignorant of till recently) the top leaf of the wagon spring has the ends bent at quite a small radius to engage with the bits that fit to the chassis. i tried bending same today and ended up snapping off the ends.
should i heat to red heat then try and bend in the annealed state? not something ive ever attempted before. or should i try annealing the spring steel further before attempting the above?
any further advice gratefully received as all a bit new to me!
cheers,
julian
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2013 1:07:51 GMT
Hello PAUL--------- Yes, had forgotten all about Whale oil..As a first-year Naval Engineering Apprentice at Plymouth ( 1965 onwards--) I can just about remember a "flash" as the item being treated was placed into the oil followed by a God-awful stink of fish that hung about for ages !!!.....I think we were making our own lathe tools as part of an on-going project that saw a complete Mini-Lathe finished at the end of our time....It was based on the Elliot Unimat lathe just like this one>>>>>>>> www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Elliott-Unimat-SL-Mini-Lathe-/161074692717?nma=true&si=IDp5crVrJSghCPKkjh5YBhektx8 -------------- including the vert. miller adaption as well........We did all our own pattern making, casting, machining--with each item being a marked test-piece in it's own right.... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2013 1:12:44 GMT
JULIAN, I'd be inclined to form them whilst at red ( bit of Blacksmithing as it were ) then anneal, temper etc after ??........Whilst you're at it how about some "Lucky" LBSC Horseshoes for Christmas ??
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Ian Holder pointed me in the direction of M Machine in Durham. Really helpful guy, Andy I think, supplied me with 10 mtres of Phosphor bronze, delivered (300 miles) for £90. 
I thought the springs might be too soft but having made them I think they might be too stiff!
What thickness?
