44767
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Posts: 534
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Post by 44767 on Jan 2, 2014 11:44:56 GMT
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Post by Roger on Jan 2, 2014 13:02:07 GMT
Excellent! That's exactly what I'm looking for, there's plenty of choice and they are available in steel as well as stainless steel. That's a great find, well done indeed! I've just contacted them to suggest that the exhibit at Alexandra Palace and set up a shop at ebay.co.uk. It will be interesting to see what they say.
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Post by rodders on Jan 2, 2014 13:48:36 GMT
Striplar Thanks for link
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Post by alanstepney on Jan 2, 2014 13:51:39 GMT
Re changing over to Metric, I have plenty of stocks of Imperial taps/dies/etc, plus BA, and ME. I have some metric, but only use it when working on something that is already metric.
Hence I wil stick with what I have in stock,until it runs out.
As for everyone changing over, a few years ago a company I was working for was asked to supply a machine. It had to be IDENTICAL to those they had bought from this company in the past. All Imperial measurements and threads.
No UK company was interested and so the order went to Japan, as they were quite happy to make what the customer wanted.
Oh, I should say that the order was worth nearly £10 million.
Thats a lot of money to turn down just because you "have gone entirely metric".
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Post by Roger on Jan 2, 2014 14:55:48 GMT
Re changing over to Metric, I have plenty of stocks of Imperial taps/dies/etc, plus BA, and ME. I have some metric, but only use it when working on something that is already metric. Hence I wil stick with what I have in stock,until it runs out. As for everyone changing over, a few years ago a company I was working for was asked to supply a machine. It had to be IDENTICAL to those they had bought from this company in the past. All Imperial measurements and threads. No UK company was interested and so the order went to Japan, as they were quite happy to make what the customer wanted. Oh, I should say that the order was worth nearly £10 million. Thats a lot of money to turn down just because you "have gone entirely metric". It makes perfect sense for you to stick to imperial sizes, that's what I'd do in your position, especially since all your plans are in those measurements and you're familiar with them. I'm familiar with both but don't have much in the way of anything imperial so it's not the same for me or newcomers. That's a fascinating anecdote and is staggering on two fronts. Firstly that someone would want to order an imperial machine, and secondly that someone in the UK wouldn't do it. It's business even if it doesn't make sense, even I'd do it! Making 'specials' is no big deal, it's only when the 'standard' machines are stuck in the past that I it's offensive to some of us.
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Post by alanstepney on Jan 2, 2014 18:26:40 GMT
The actual end-user had several (I think 6) identical machines that had been used daily for some 30 years and still worked reliably. They also had a comprehensive stock of spares for them. They felt that an identical machine, and no extra spares etc, was the best option for their situatiom
Why British companies declined to supply, I cant say. But they did.
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Post by Roger on Jan 2, 2014 18:38:46 GMT
The actual end-user had several (I think 6) identical machines that had been used daily for some 30 years and still worked reliably. They also had a comprehensive stock of spares for them. They felt that an identical machine, and no extra spares etc, was the best option for their situatiom Why British companies declined to supply, I cant say. But they did. That sounds like a compelling argument for another one of the same type, but I doubt very much if that 30 year old design would have been anywhere near as productive as a more modern one. This kind of thinking blighted British Manufacturing for decades and put us on the back foot. My anecdote concerns the need for more production for pressed parts at General Motors where I was an apprentice and then Production Engineer. The old hands wanted more of the Wilkins & Mitchell transfer presses of which they already had three and copious spares and tooling. In the end they went for a modern German machine that ran at 80 strokes per minute instead of the 15 of the old ones. It ran so well that they threw out the old ones and the new one could do it all by running a few extra hours. It also had a footprint that was smaller than the old ones. You'd think that such a simple and fundamental process of pressing parts couldn't be subject to such change, but you'd be wrong. The old thinking said to run it until it was knackered, the new thinking wrote off the asset in three years and binned it for more modern technology. That's just one reason why the Japanese wiped the floor with us. We now do it their way, but it's a bit late, our industry is largely gone.
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Post by Tel on Jan 2, 2014 20:20:29 GMT
Hmmmm .... looks like they only go down to M2 tho' ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png) My problem(s) with metric are that the availability is just not there - BA is cheap and plentiful and; Metric hex heads are usually grossly over sized. Also, to the discerning eye, metric threads just don't 'look' right. This argument has been raging for at least 30 years and is set to continue for another 30.
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Post by Roger on Jan 2, 2014 21:27:23 GMT
Hmmmm .... looks like they only go down to M2 tho' ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png) My problem(s) with metric are that the availability is just not there - BA is cheap and plentiful and; Metric hex heads are usually grossly over sized. Also, to the discerning eye, metric threads just don't 'look' right. This argument has been raging for at least 30 years and is set to continue for another 30. Check out this page..... knupfer.info/shop/index.php/deutsch/modellschrauben-stahl/stahl-hoher-kopf.htmlthey go down to M1.2 and these are for model engineers so the heads ought to be right. For example, a standard M3 hex head is 5.5mm but theirs is 4mm. Trust our metric German friends to have sorted all of this out without any of us being aware of it. I agree that the argument is set to continue for some time, but given an alternative, those who haven't grown up with BA and the like won't see the logic in using it.
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Post by Roger on Jan 2, 2014 22:18:29 GMT
Well, that was a surprise.... I've just placed an order for sundry nuts and bolts to the value of €64.90 and it's gone straight through! The confirmation email simply states that 'You will receive shortly the items including invoice (no advance payment)'. Crikey, that's trusting of them!
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44767
Statesman
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Post by 44767 on Jan 2, 2014 23:18:29 GMT
Well then- I may just have to reconcider the bolt and screw sizes I use on my models! Yes it's good to see that they have much smaller heads than DIN standard ones (which they sell also). They have all the taps too and rather cheaper than some that a friend sourced here. He needed an M1 tap in HSS and paid over $100 from the local tool merchant. Don't worry; it was for his work not model engineering!
To get back to the original post, I am in the middle of doing a spread sheet of scale imperial bolts versus the newly found supplies of metric ones. I might even put in a column for the equivalent BA size for those who are interested! But I am also in the middle of painting the house so I'll get on to it this evening again.
Striplar, Let us know what the service is like.
Mike
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44767
Statesman
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Posts: 534
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Post by 44767 on Jan 2, 2014 23:23:46 GMT
Actually Striplar, they have brass ones in M1.0, M0.8 and M0.6 so really they cover the range down to 14BA and beyond. Most seem to be available in standard and low heads as well.
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Post by Roger on Jan 2, 2014 23:45:07 GMT
Will do Mike, I think the prices are pretty fair, considering it's a niche business. Watch this space...
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bhk
Part of the e-furniture
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Post by bhk on Jan 3, 2014 3:31:08 GMT
Well, that was a surprise.... I've just placed an order for sundry nuts and bolts to the value of €64.90 and it's gone straight through! The confirmation email simply states that 'You will receive shortly the items including invoice (no advance payment)'. Crikey, that's trusting of them! Similar to mike, let me know how you get on, the prices are excellent!
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Post by Roger on Jan 3, 2014 7:32:58 GMT
I'll try to remember to take them along to Alexandra Palace on the Saturday in case anyone wants to judge for themselves.
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Post by yorkshireman on Jan 3, 2014 9:54:28 GMT
Hallo I do not think that Dieter Knupfer will come Alexandra Palace as very few days earlier he will set up shop at the Karlsruhe Echtdampf Hallentreffen (10. - 12. Jan 2014). However, he is happy to sell/send stuff to the UK, like he did many times before to me (in Leeds). Johannes
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Post by Roger on Jan 3, 2014 18:06:10 GMT
Hallo I do not think that Dieter Knupfer will come Alexandra Palace as very few days earlier he will set up shop at the Karlsruhe Echtdampf Hallentreffen (10. - 12. Jan 2014). However, he is happy to sell/send stuff to the UK, like he did many times before to me (in Leeds). Johannes Ah, you're probably right but I thought I'd just pose the question. It would appear that they are relatively unknown in the UK, you're the only person I know who's heard of them. They're missing a trick with the UK market, how did you know about them? Do they ever advertise in the Model Engineer or such places? Roger
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Post by davebreeze on Jan 4, 2014 0:02:09 GMT
Polly Model Engineering have metric fasteners in their catalogue... it says they source them from Germany, perhaps the same guy?
I'm going to Karlsruhe next week, something to look out for.
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44767
Statesman
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Posts: 534
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Post by 44767 on Jan 4, 2014 6:41:37 GMT
I've just looked at the Polly Models Catalogue and I would say that they are the same screws so that's quite good news for those wanting them from the UK. The price is a fair bit more from Polly; the example I looked at worked out at £0.11 each from the German supplier and £0.154 each from Polly (40% more). However, it's a step in the right direction, isn't it Striplar?
Mike
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Post by Roger on Jan 4, 2014 8:07:45 GMT
I've just looked at the Polly Models Catalogue and I would say that they are the same screws so that's quite good news for those wanting them from the UK. The price is a fair bit more from Polly; the example I looked at worked out at £0.11 each from the German supplier and £0.154 each from Polly (40% more). However, it's a step in the right direction, isn't it Striplar? Mike Absolutely Mike, because it's the lack of appreciation that these things exist that stops them from being adopted. I think that's a fair markup if they're buying from someone else, it's not worth doing for less than that. I have a pleasant response from Knupfer saying that they were only a 3 man company and didn't have the resources to exhibit in the Uk which is fair enough. They did give a positive response to the idea of putting some parts on ebay.co.uk so that might happen. Personally, an ebay shop with a link to their main one would be ideal because any searches for things like Model Engineers Bolts would be certain to find them on ebay. Obviously ebay is indexed by google on a daily basis so anything on there is going to pop up in google search results. This would massively raise the awareness that these things are available. So far I've had no trouble selecting metric threads for speedy, and it's handy to be able to use standard metric screws, of which I have many types, to hold things together while it's being made. I'm sure our imperial friends do the same thing but this makes life easier for newcomers and imperial-phobes like me to use off the shelf fixings. Roger
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