How to free a morse taper?

[modeng2000]

What is the recommended way of removing chucks on morse tapers from spindles?
I have a collet chuck on a 1 morse taper with a thread in the end for a draw bar. It does not seem right to hit the end of the taper using a drift and a mallet but I don't know of another way. There is no hole for a wedge as some spindles have and I am concerned for the drawbar thread.

John

[ron]

I usually slacken the drawbar a couple of turns and hit it with a brass hammer, mine's a 3MT but it frees without resorting to excessive force.
Ron

[havoc]

Loosen the drawbar and tap with a brass/copper/nylon hammer. That is what I was told to do when I bought my mill. Guess it is the same for a lathe.

[Steve M. W]

I do as Ron & Havoc Loosen the drawbar and tap with a hard rubber hammer on the very odd time it sticks I use a copper hammer.
Steve

[Steve M. W]

As a thought if its in the lathe use a rod longer than the spindle with a lump of copper screw threaded on to one end and steel handle screw threaded onto the other end and use like a slide hammer. by using screw on blocks of steel & copper these can be changed for heaver or lighter bits for other applications.

Steve

[Ansty]

I usually use a length of bronze rod and tap the taper out. Haven't damaged anything yet!

Brian

[modeng2000]

Thanks for answering such a basic question, makes me feel like a beginner to have to ask in the first place. But then I suppose I am really.
The machine is my mill, a Hobbymat BFE 65. The present chuck has a flange fitting and so releasing is no problem, just undo the three screws.
I feel better knowing that a tap in the right place is the usual method.

John

[lancelot]

Hello All,
I had a morse taper 2--3 shell jam on me in the mill not so long ago, no amount of tapping or even whacking it with a brass bar and lead mallet would shift it, thus I then found a rather unusual use for a kiddies ice lollypop I presented it up into the morse taper shell, jamming it in with some kitchen towel,after half an hour removed the residue, tapped shell with drift and shell dropped out , I now put a light smear of graphite grease on shell or indeed any other taper tooling I use, seems to have worked so far.
All the best for now.
John.

[John Lee]

If your Morse taper tooling is not abused, it does not need this.

Just clean it out...... but this was why industry changed.... lazyness from the operators...not here surely??

Regards,

John

[pendembu]

The best way to remove a tool where the morse taper refuses to budge is to use wedges. These are fairly easy to make from metal bar on a power hacksaw or bandsaw.They have the advantage of being kind to the machine bearings.I had a Hobbymat mill once and its little 1MT made tool removal very difficult.Repeated bashing of the drawbar is not reccommended.Usually the wedges remove the most stubborn tapers with a modest tap,occasionally two. My own 3MT tooling on an 00 Mill never gives any trouble now but when I bought it I had to have the Osborne chuck jammed in it removed by proffessional machine tool restorers. They probably bashed the drawbar with a sledgehammer!!

[modeng2000]

Thanks pendembu, the use of wedges is much kinder to the machine.
I'll make up a pair.

John

[John Lee]

A good investment is a morse taper reamer to your choice, or just care about keeping the tapers inside and outside clean at all times.

Industry long ago moved to more shallow tapers and keyways, but we have a bit more time don't we?

If you need to bash it out it has been abused. However, glad problem solved

Regards,

John

[epicyclicgearbox]

In my workshop, many different tapers are used. 2MT on the drill, 3MT on lathe tailstock, H Mill and the other drill, 5MT!! for putting a centre in headstock of the lathe, L00 to mount chuck & etc on the lathe spindle, and 30INT for the V Mill.

They all tend to bind in sometimes, in particular the 30INT as the spindle bearings on the mill get rather warm in use and that tends to expand the chuck taper (held by a drawbar) into a good lock with the socket on the spindle. However, where a drawbar is used, slackening it 1-2 turns and then sharply applying something heavy to the drawbar usually works. For the mill, I use a hide faced hammer.

In my humble experience, if swarf is present when you fit the tapered item to whatever, it will tend not to lock. It is a good idea when a drawbar is used with a morse taper to see if the chuck or whatever will "grab" if inserted by hand alone before tightening the drawbar. If it won't then that's a sure sign that swarf (or even a microscopic filing) is present. If you tighten the drawbar up in these circumstances, the offending particle of metal will leave a nasty "dent" in both ground surfaces. Too many of these and it will never hold right again, and every taper shanked drill in your stock will lose their tangs, and your expensive milling chuck will suffer a stripped drawbar thread. This is where the 30/40/50 INT tapers used on bigger machines have an advantage as the drive is taken via "dogs" rather than the friction of the taper.

As a hint, do not feel inclined to oil tapers before insertion. This does reduce the tendency to lock, but also reduces the drive friction so you may "de-tang" some drills, or strip a drawbar. Also, if you use soluble oil on your machines, ALWAYS separate all tapers at the end of the days work and clean them with a dry rag. Soluble oil is very good at causing tapers to sieze together, and once you've managed to separate them, they'll never quite go back together again in the same precise way. This is quite important if you use tools with tapers smaller than the socket and use a sleeve to "make up the difference". It's quite tempting to leave the sleeve on the tool permanently. I once practically ruined a 2" roller burnisher doing this (3MT taper, fitted with 5MT sleeve to fit tailstock on a 5ft swing lathe!). Someone else needed the tool and wanted to use it on a small Harrison L6 lathe and we couldn't get the sleeve off easily. When we did, both surfaces were completley rusted.

I don't have machines that big in my shed and don't work on them anymore, but the same principles apply.

Best Regards

Epicyclic

[Smifffy]

I was taught during my apprenticeship to loosen the draw bar by a couple of threads and then "tap" with a hammer. I've being this for a couple of years now with my Warco Mill and only last week managed to strip the thread on the draw bar. That's possibly more related to the quality of the draw bar though! Now I tend to use a bar that fits down inside the trhread.
Smifffy

[modeng2000]

When I asked this question, I did not realise how involved the problem could be.
Thanks for all your helpful replies.

John