Aster vs Winson/Modelworks Kits

[trainman]

I've been wondering why Aster seem to be successful whereas Winson and then Modelworks couldn't make a go of it.

The Aster models appear to be very well made, and at £4250 for a kit and £5250 ready made they seem very good value for money.

They have recently released a rebuilt Merchant Navy, see www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtEoGzKWUUE which looks spot on, and their Castle has sold out.

So why couldn't Winson/Modelworks do it?

Are the Japanese labour rates cheaper to account for the price?

If Aster made a 5inch version of the MN would it cost twice as much as the little version? There would obviously be more material to buy, but setting up the machines and making the parts wouldn't take much more time and effort surely?

Even if they charged £10k - £12k for a 5inch version it would still be cheaper that the Winson/Modelworks kits.

Or is it because they sell a lot more of the little ones so that can recoup the initial setup costs, or is it because there are more people able/willing to fork out £4250 rather than £10k?

Just wondered.

Paul

[alanstepney]

There are a number of reasons, but most are not worth posting in public.

Aster locos are good, and work well. They manage to produce at a cost that makes them attractive, but still make a profit.
Japanese labour rates are not much different from those in the UK. Rates and incidental "taxes" here are FAR more than in Japan or in the US.
That is one expense that our manufacturers have to pay.

[flyingfox]

Greetings, I think you need to think about the volume of sales, restricted because of the larger gauge.
I think that only about 150 Britannia kits in 5 in gauge, and 25 in 7 1/4 in gauge, were produced in batches of 25 by both companies, over a ten year plus period.
I suspect that Aster produce many more than that in gauge 1.
regards
Flying Fox

[gwr14xx]

I guess it just shows the difference in the UK and Japanese attitudes towards mass production. They did the same with motorcycle production - they committed to making larger numbers, so altered the production methods to reduce the unit cost. A prime example is the more costly pressure die castings they used - these resulted in much tidier looking machines at a reduced cost because there was no additional outlay for subsequent fettling/machining.

GWR14XX

[cplmickey]

Paul, I think this is a difficult comparison to make although I'm not sure your thinking about pricing is right. My 9F from Winsons cost £6594.86 in 1999 which according to the "thisismoney" website would be £10,133.66 today so right in the middle of the £10k - £12k you are suggesting. I suspect a number of things won't scale up in price simply - the boiler for a start must be considerably more than simply the scale ratio.

In my opinion the main reason Winsons failed was they tried to run before they could walk. Every show they seemed to be bringing out another one or two more models and in the end most seemed to have been mediocre instead of making a smaller number of better quality kits. Some of the parts supplied to me looked as though they had been made by a 5 year old and of course some just didn't fit. I only complained about the connecting rods for my kit but as these locos were targetted at people with limited engineering experience I suspect they had far more returns, requests for replacements etc from others which just takes away the profit and gives you a bad press.

[trainman]

Hi all,

Thanks for the responses.

However, was it not possible for Modelworks to have learnt the mistakes that Winson made to put them on a stronger financial footing?

For Modelworks to go the same way as Winson is somewhat unlucky or careless.

Paul

[marshall5]

O.S.models in Japan seem to have been successful with their range of kits in 3/4", 1" and 1 1/2" scales. I believe they go together well and the only negative I've heard is that the brass fittings on some older locos are beginning to suffer from de-zincification. As suggested earlier, if Winson had concentrated on a smaller range and improved quality control they might still be around. The ex- Modelworks chaps at Steam Traction World appear to be doing O.K. with their traction engine kits but they aren't cheap. Maybe you do get what you pay for. Ray.

[mattscrutton]

Sept 5, 2014 21:29:18 GMT marshall5 said:

O.S.models in Japan seem to have been successful with their range of kits in 3/4", 1" and 1 1/2" scales. I believe they go together well and the only negative I've heard is that the brass fittings on some older locos are beginning to suffer from de-zincification. As suggested earlier, if Winson had concentrated on a smaller range and improved quality control they might still be around. The ex- Modelworks chaps at Steam Traction World appear to be doing O.K. with their traction engine kits but they aren't cheap. Maybe you do get what you pay for. Ray.

I built a O.S. turbo generator kit for my Midge to power the headlight.  I followed the instructions carefully and sure enough it was spinning at 30,000 rpm like it had been made in a factory.  The standard of fit and finish is superb.

[alabaster]

Winson tried to sell too many units and didn't have the capacity to make them all, and what was made was so rushed and poor quality that many customers just sent kits back and refused to pay. When they were making Britannia and 14xx in the early days the capacity was there to make the parts to a good standard. Once they were making up to a dozen different models they became overwhelmed. It was frustrating as the fundamentals for success were good but managed so so badly.

[spamcanman]

I have a nice collection of Asters including the latest rebuilt Merchant Navy, Aster don't make kits in large numbers far from it the most they will do of the Merchant navy is probably 150 some of there locos for all the trouble they have gone to they make only 70. A couple of years ago a Garrett was built costing £9000 it sold out in months what happens is Aster build locos to order so the UK distributor ask's what the Gauge1 market would like to see and HE puts the money up and orders the build of the loco, this goes for all the worldwide distributors in the States last year a BigBoy was built by Aster costing £12000 yep it sold out even before the loco kits were built by Aster they have such a strong market and following rarely do they not sell out but then they would do if there only under subscribe there orders it keeps collectors and buyers of Gauge1 hungry for the next model.

I think if Winson just put all there effort into 2 locos and Modelworks also, maybe just maybe they would still be around today. What happened to the B1 being suplied in kit form a couple of years back did anybody finish one are they still going also a small team in St.Albans have tried to build a batch of Britannia's to sell one has been on Ebay without success for many months I would not like to try and make a living out of this hobby too much imput and too little return!

[Deleted]

" I would not like to try and make a living out of this hobby too much imput and too little return ! "

Just do the sums on a Britannia in 5" gauge :

Number of hours to build one : 2000 - 3000 .

Realistic charge rate/hour  : Start at £25 and go up from there .
                                            £50 to £75 is common minimum charge rate for industrial jobbing shops .
                                       
Taking the lowest/lowest gives a minimum selling price of £50,000 and builder would probably still end up in the workhouse .