LBSC's Doris versus the Code

[Shawki Shlemon]

Keith , I am Australian as well but your issue is Global , here in OZ when the code is updated , the changes does not apply to old boilers , in other words not retrospective . The only issue is the history of the boiler and old certification , if one can trace the history may find there is paperwork somewhere , I have done this here more than once . The first thing you should do look for a stamped number on the boiler and that may lead you to find the history of your boiler .

[runner42]

Hi Keith,

glad you find the content interesting. However, it is Australian centric and I have attempted to highlight the differences between LBSC's design and the AMBSC Code Part 1 requirements, but these requirements are not mandatory in the UK, so I would try to understand what prevails in the UK. There has been some mention of the blue book. Shawki's comment about non retrospectivity would I imagine also apply to the UK environment so I would not be overly concerned that the boiler is as LBSC originally designed. Establishing its provenance is as Shawki has indicated the best option.

I expect that forum members resident in the UK would be willing to assist you further.

Brian

[beekay50]

Brian and Shawki,

Many thanks for the advice I will set up a thread on this, good luck with your build.

Many Thanks


Keith

[steam4ian]

G'day Keith.

Good luck trying to find the provenance of the boiler. Good advice from Brian but most likely difficult/impossible to apply.

By all means get it hydraulically tested in the NATA Cert. laboratory and get the test well documented just as you would for a production vessel. Include copious photos and diagrams of the test set up. Have the documents signed by an accredited tester.

For the small cost obtain a miniature video camera which can plug by USB into a PC/lap top. Get a good look inside the boiler.

As an aside, the Australian code now requires rod stays for the firebox crown. Their reasons are that girder and plate type stays restrict circulation and that the silver solder joint to the outer wrapper couldn't be inspected. This last issue is now less relevant because this joint can be inspected with the camera I mentioned.

Regards
Ian

[runner42]

This is not progress, this was as frustrating as trying to land a prize in that old fairground machine containing a grab crane where you have to steer the crane with user controls to grab the prize you want and deposit in the chute to obtain it.

I was attempting to set the regulator actuating rod end stop which prevents the rod from being pulled away and loosing contact with the regulator. I had successfully installed the regulator many times before the backhead was silver soldered in. In the advent that I dropped the rod into the boiler it could be easily removed by taking the backhead off. In this condition I was successful every time, however first attempt at installation with a closed up boiler the worst happened I dropped the rod in the boiler. Since it has two bosses that can just pass through the regulator bush trying to come out the same way it went in was impossible. I was fortunate that the smokebox tubeplate had a bush big enough to get it to pass through. It took many hours but I eventually achieved it.

The hooked tool shown at the bottom of the picture was used as the extraction tool.

I will ensure next time that the regulator handle is attached so it can't happen again.

Brian

 

[GWR 101]

Hi Brian, sorry to see you had a mishap but glad you got it sorted, must admit that has been one of my worse nightmares dropping something into the boiler whilst working on the regulator. Regards Paul

[Jim]

Despite the mishap and we all have them, your boiler is looking very nice indeed Brian. You should be very close to having the pressure test done.

Jim

[runner42]

Paul the greatest problem is having an item such as the small actuating arm that goes between the rod and the regulator, it can't pass through the regulator bush and has to be installed through the dome bush, is dropped in and lodges between the tubes and becomes a permanent resident in the boiler.

Jim I have filled the boiler with water and don't appear to have any leaks, but that's a long way from a pressure test but it's a step in the right direction. I have to cobble together a pressure test rig. I don't know if the club's pressure test requires all the backhead fittings and regulator in place for the test or the openings can be plugged only.

Brian

[Shawki Shlemon]

I can only tell you what I require , longitudinal stays in , regulator up to you ( I personally fit mine ) , all opening plugged except one that must have an appropriate fitting to match club test equipment . I advice people to have a plate silver soldered on the back-head or where required to stamp the number on ( I do that on my boilers ) .

[runner42]

Thanks Shawki,

a change in workscope, leaving the boiler leak/pressure testing for a while. The superheater is an item that has been impacted by the unavailability of 11/16" diameter flues, 5/8" used instead and the code's requirements of using 18swg copper tube instead of 22swg. This makes the superheater using 3/16" diameter tubes a snug fit and I was uncertain whether or not fitting would be a problem. I assume that for the superheater to work effectively that some clear space around the superheater elements is required and therefore the reduced space around these would affect the performance. Cleaning is a greater problem. A suggestion was to not fit a superheater, but that wasn't an option.

Brian

 

PS Just realised I have forgotten to make a steam connection to the wet header for the snifter valve. The dry header is split into two to ease assembly to the smokebox steam connections.

[GWR 101]

Nice work Brian, I am glad you are fitting super heaters as I am to my Juliet. I am informed by numerous people all of whom I have the greatest respect for that they are "not worth the effort on 3 1/2" gauge" well this might be my only build so I am fitting them. I am working on the principle that it's easier to remove them if I have a problem and fit restrictors to the tubes than not to try them. Like you I have 5/8" flue tubes and its going to be very cosy in there, as I am proposing to fit 1/4" super heater tubes, it will also be very busy in the smoke box. Regards Paul

[ejparrott]

They very definitely are worth the effort in 3.5", as they are in 2.5"!!

[runner42]

I produced a rough and ready set up for pressure testing the boiler. The pressure gauge is only an indicator and not considered as an accurate device. The water pump uses a piece of 5/8" diameter copper tube which provided a good fit to the SS ram, but after silver soldering the valve chamber, the annealing process caused it to become slightly oval, so not as good a fit as before. But as long as I can get some pressure for testing some water leakage past the ram is not detrimental.

The only item to complete is to seal the blind nuts for the longitudinal stays. The regulator is fitted but not part of the pressure test as a plug is closing off at the steam bush.

Brian

[steam4ian]

Brian

Looking good.

Have you tried the boiler with mains pressure water, that can be between 50 psi and 100 psi off the garden hose, quick initial test for leaks.

I query replacing the regulator and dry pipe with bushes. I place these items are like tubes and negate the pressure on the plate around them. Plugging them as you have shown may put pressure on un-stayed parts of the tube plate and back head.

Regards
Ian

[Jim]

You've done a great job with the boiler Brian. Well done!

My concern apart from Ian's, is that looking at the photos of your boiler it seems to be just balanced on the extreme edges of those bricks and set to crash down at any second or have you got some hidden off camera support? 

Jim

[jma1009]

hi brian,
looking good! get those longitudinal stays sealed so you can pump it up!
then take a pic of it for us showing the gauge at 180psi!
cheers,
julian

[runner42]

Hi Ian,

no I haven't applied mains pressure because at the moment I know there are leaks at the blind nuts for the longitudinal stays, the threads in the backhead are marginal and requires some thread sealant applied. What to use?

It is a good thing that that the code requires bushes for all the backhead fittings, I would have more trouble if I had to depend on the threads in the backhead for the fittings as LBSC specified.  

I note your point about undue pressure on the smokebox tubeplate without the dry tube from the regulator to the smokebox tubeplate, so I shall modify the plug to be double threaded to accept the dry tube.

Brian

[runner42]

Thanks Jim and Julian,

thanks for your encouragement and the comment on the dodgy brick setup, I know how vulnerable soft copper is to knocks, it was for photo shoot purposes only. I shall be more careful when I start the testing. What thread sealant do you recommend?

Brian

[steam4ian]

Brian

Quick reply before dashing off to church.

Google "high temperature Loctite" or use one of the automotive gasket goos. Bill Coles who used to be BI at SASMEE recommended a blue mastic gasket sealant which is obtainable in small tubes from Super Cheap Auto or Repco.

Regards
Ian

[ejparrott]

Stag