Oilless engine?

[havoc]

I recently visited a gauge 0 meeting. Met a lot of very fine people and would like to continue visiting. But why not take a little live steamer to those meetings. I got some plans from members of this site that would be ideal.

Only problem is they have a portable track they use for this kind of meetings. But while it is like the portable track of gauge 1 live steam meets it is a bit less rugged. So I don't think they would like a track smeared with steam oil, dripping water and leaking meths.

The leaking of water and meths can be controlled by using a single filling and gas. But steam oil is a problem. So here the question:

Is it possible to make a gauge 0 loc that won't need steam oil?

I tought about using stainless and teflon for cilinder and piston. Likewise for the valve. Wheel bearings could also be teflon or acetal. What are other materials/combinations worth exploring? It isn't for a loc that is going to run lots of "kilometers".

[SteveW]

Havoc,

Just a thought but have you considered one of the new spray dry lubricants as used on motorcycle drive chains? They're not cheap but go on as a fine spray, penetrate and dry to soft waxy finish that stays put.

I've been using it on my new toy with some success until it got serviced and the twerp used old fashioned grease which simply sprayed off on to the wheel, chain guard, under the seat and, I suspect, everywhere I went for a day or so.

[havoc]

I think that for the parts that do not come into contact with steam the problem is solvable. I'll take a look at that spray in any case because I see use for it.

But what with the cilinder and valve?

[SteveW]

Havoc,

What about graphite dust as used to lubricate locks. I bought some years back in a little puffer pack to lub my front door lock barrel. It doesn't make your pocket all greasy.

And I agree about the advert banner. I've now got to scroll up even further to get out of the current thread by which time I'm hacked off and would refuse to look at the advert. So a total home goal for the twerp that designed it that way.

[Shawki Shlemon]

The steam is a lubricant and I was told by chap who worked on ships and I am not sure about this that they never used oil in cylinders .the engine were not superheated and run at low rpm .If you use PTFE for rings I think you will be OK for cylinders .For other parts use the spry mentioned above.

[havoc]

Okay, so I'll try with ptfe in the cilinder, valve and glands. What would be the best material to work against? Stainless, brass or ph-bronze?

If I'm going to use ptfe for the cilinders, I might as well use it for the axles. What would there be the best to work against? Silver steel (hardned or not?) or stainless?

I know, lots of questions, but this is new territory for me. The other engines I'm working on are plain steel and bronze together with plenty of oil...

[jackrae]

I would tend to agree that you shouldn't really need oil injected into the steam circuit. however i'm sure we will soon get to know otherwise.

There is one basic difference between marine steam engines and railway locomotive types. Basically a locomotive operates in an open cycle, ie it uses its water only once - boil water to make steam, use the steam to produce work then exhaust the waste steam to the smoke stack. A marine engine uses its water in a closed cycle - boil, use steam to produce work then condense the waste steam back to water and return to boiler. (Power stations operate the same way) Because of this any oil injected as a lubricant would find its way back to the boiler tubes where it would bake onto the tube surface so reducing the heat transfer rate. This in turn would make the tube surface run hotter and the baked surface would get thicker. This visous cycle continues until the tube burns out. Not exactly what you want to happen when you're in the middle of an ocean several thousand miles from the nearest dock-yard.

So, as suggested use dry lubricants for bearings and no lubricants for the steam circuit.

regards
jack

[spurley]

Hi Jack

I also understand that oil in a boiler can tend to induce 'priming' (carry over of water when regulator/steam vales opened) due to foaming. This is prevalent in full size locos and used to be noticeable after boiler work, such as a retube, had been completed. The only answer was to wash out the boiler more frequently initially to clear the nuisance away.

Cheers

Brian

[Noddy]

a quick thought: nylon is supposed to be lubricated by water, I gather that there are volume changes involved as the stuff wets and dries, but beyond that don't know a lot about it.
Keith

[havoc]

Nylon has a problem in that it swells in water and isn't up to "high" temperatures. Certainly noy above 80°C.

[jackrae]

As far as axle bearings etc are concerned, considering it is only gauge-0 and isn't intended for too much running, how about simply using Oilite bushes. These are preloaded with lubricant manufactured scintered bronze bushes
jack

[Shawki Shlemon]

I agree with jackrae . I used oilite bushes on tailing axle boxes of Jersy Lily 20 years ago and the engine to my knowledge never had a problem there .( I said to my knowledge because the engine was sold 15 years ago and is still in our club)

[GeorgeRay]

In full size if the cylinder lubricator isn't working the noises up front soon let you know. This is with the regulator shut or open. However there wont be much noise in 0 gauge so maybe there wont be a problem.