Non Superheated

[monkeyhero97]

Hi there all
I would just like to ask if any of you have had any experince with non-superheated simplexes. The builder of mine should it off... saying it steamed better without. Does anyone have any experinces with this... I am pondering whether to leave off or put it back on
Marc

[Shawki Shlemon]

Some will argue that S/H is not required for models in our sizes but I can't see how it would be better without it . This is an argument that been going on for very long time is there a worthwhile benefit or not , in my opinion if it is not beneficial , it certainly is not negative . I like S/H in my engines if possible and I have fitted them in most of my engines , in my opinion you don't get showers from chimney , more economical in water and coal but whether it produce more power I leave that to those more knowledgeable than myself in calculating power and traction . My advice is put it back .

[uuu]

If the engine is going OK without it, then I'd leave it alone. It might go better superheated, but it's quite a lot of work to fit one. And once you start to take things apart, you'll find other things you want to change. And before you know it you'll have the whole loco in bits.

Wilf

[monkeyhero97]

Wilf, these are my thoughts exactly, within these next 10 days, I will have a pretty good idea whether it can pull a decent amount of people...without the superheater
Marc

[jma1009]

hi marc,
shawki has many many years experience of building lots of superb miniature locos and running them, and i agree 100% with his comments.
if your Simplex has the large superheater tube/flue fitted into the boiler then it ought to have a superheater fitted. my own experience accords exactly with shawki in that they are hugely beneficial to miniature locos same as in fullsize. i dont like coaxial superheaters, and Stepney will be my first loco with radiant superheaters. what you must acquire is a small flue brush so that the superheater flue can be cleaned if you fit the superheater back in. the original simplex design as opposed to super simplex had 1 large superheater flue.
cheers,
julian

[monkeyhero97]

HI all
After my run yesterday, I had no power issues. I was pulling three people at around 45 psi without a problem. However, the steam is very wet, as to be expected. My simplex does just have the one large flue. I think i will do it put it on at the end of this season. There are a few other bits and bobs to do aswell. I do have the superheat element and the petticoat, I just do not want to loose any parts or make it stop working for this season
Marc

[gwr7800]

Hi I would do as you suggest run for the rest of the season then fit it, especially if you already have one! Running my super simplex for our last day at the club tomorrow, good luck regards Chris

[Deleted]

Dukedog ran for a while with the steam driers not fitted (not enough of them to be classed as superheaters!) and the only difference was the daft amount of fire it threw without them! Just ask the boys at Didcot who burnt down a marquee by driving it too hard down their small demonstration track!

[monkeyhero97]

Hi all
After testing my loco twice on the track, I am defintely happy with the perfomance. Although the passengers sometimes get a shower when working hard, my simplex had the performance of a normal simplex; while I only had two people for most of my run, occasionally i had three, when the pressure was above 60 and I had half a gauge glass of water, she sailed up up the 400m long 1 in 80 grade at a great speed, maybe higher than 10kmph.
I do have one other question, according to my pressure gauge, the pop safety valves always go off around 80 psi, not 100 psi. They are the ross pop type. Is there any harm in adjusting them to go at 95 ish and how would it be done? The certificate say working pressure is 100 psi.
Cheers
Marc

[Deleted]

Hi Marc,

Don't assume the loco pressure gauge is accurate unless it has been tested recently against a known calibrated gauge. Over here it is part of the annual steam test that the gauge is checked.

Years ago, before I joined, a chap brought a Tich to our club which ran like a scalded cat. It was later found that he had set the safety valve to the pressure gauge on the loco, which was faulty, and the boiler was running at something like 150psi!

The safety valves should have a threaded insert in the top which can be screwed further in to increase the blowing off pressure. I've found that the springs can go 'soft' over time and lower the pressure at which they blow off. Or maybe the previous owner was happy to run at the lower pressure.

If you do adjust the valves you may find that the loco exhaust becomes a bit drier due to the higher pressure and hence higher temperature of the steam from the boiler.

John

[Deleted]

Hi Marc------- I think we've been through this discussion before ??--------Please read this first >>>>>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheater -------------- As you will have seen, the main benefit is to increase the overall efficiency of the loco ( less coal and water consumption for the same power output).....In my Kinver Club, the late John Hurley,a fellow club member, a prolific winner of our mini-IMLEC ( KINLEC) and an Ex-GWR Driver based at Wolverhampton was asked "How come you keep winning ??....and he replied "SUPERHEATING is the key".....True, as it was me who asked him.......quick story for you}.......On the SVR and it was on one Summer Sunday and I was Firing to him on one of our Manors on a return trip back to Bridgnorth....We were "First in---Last out" at Highley with about 10 on for 300 tons? .. He was standing in the middle of the fallplate, rolling one of his fags...We had the token, I had a good spread of nicely burning best Welsh, 2/3 glass and 200 on the clock......."CLANK" as the starter came off, "PEEP" and "Right Away" from a small, flag-waving fellow down the far end....Seemed like a nice chap so I waved back at him......."Right Away, John" I called and took my place to watch us out of the station.........Nothing happened !!....So I looked back at him quizically and he's now rolling a second fag !!......John was one of those slow, quiet, deliberate sort of characters who you grew to respect just by being in their presence........"Well, go on then, take her out" was all he said.......So, ask yourself, how many times would YOU need to be told ??----Yes, me neither !!----------Close firedoors, drains open, 75%, both brakes off, 1 toot on the service whistle and, gripping the regulator firmly with both hands it's ease the pilot valve slowly off it's seat and,.......YE GODS, WE'RE MOVING !!........About 3 miles further on and he took over again...Needless to say I gave the BEST firing I could for the rest of that journey, and after much use of the slacking pipe around the footplate and bar of soap over my hands and face, we rumbled into Bridgnorth looking spik and span....token handed to the bobby and came to rest just past the signalbox---on time !!........Just another service train on that day's timetable but one of special memories for me...There is another part to this event which explains how we managed to be together on the footplate that day------but I'll tell you that one at a later time ..... He's not with us now...I, and MANY others, were at his funeral....Thanks John, that day changed my life !!

[monkeyhero97]

Hi all
Alan thanks for the story! Hopefully in not so long ( 2016-2017ish) I'll become a fireman on the F&WHR. I'm starting my footplate career in july as a cleaner, two weeks of locos, locos and more locos! I cannot wait

Regarding the superheater, I contacted the builder and he gave me his thoughts. He told me that his club track was quite long ( 650m) and had a big grade at the end. He said he always had 2 cars of passengers so he needed a big fire. A friend of his, who also had a simplex told him that without the superheater, a lot more draught was created allowing for larger fires to help him up that grade. He said did so and said in the few runs he had after without the superheater firing was easier and he defintely saw a boost in performance, and that he pulled six adults up the grade without a problem ( I cannot wait to see that happen, hopefully in a few weeks!). Günter ( the builder) said that the smokebox flange can be removed just by pulling it off ( i'm not with the loco atm so I will report back once I've tried) and that re-fitting it back will not be a problem. I'll make the most of that oppurtunity by wrapping the blast pipe with silicon sealant as I think I removed some off when being to enthusiastic with my cleaning ( i thought it was a big clump of soot!). My other problem with the smokebox is one of the door hinges has broken off. I don't have a soldering setup yet so I think I will to find a quick easier temporary fix.


I do not have club but I will run at that amazing 2km track in the summer again which has a 500m climb. If Günter had problems with the superheater, I'm still not sure whether or not to put it back on.

What are your opinions now you've heard the builder's argument?

Cheers

Marc

[Deleted]

Hi Marc,

I wouldn't expect that removing the superheater would have such a significant effect on the draughting. It does increase the area of the tubes from 11.43% to 13.29% which would help a bit to increase the draft through the fire. It sounds to me as if the draughting of the loco is not particularly good in the first place and needs looking at. Personally I don't think the single large superheater flue on the original Simplex boiler is a particularly good design. Both the flue and the superheater are too large in diameter. The later Super Simplex with two flues and smaller diameter superheaters is much better.

You mention in an earlier post that you still have the superheater and the petticote pipe. Does that mean the petticote pipe is not fitted at the moment and you only have the short stub at the base of the chimney?

It's a bit of a catch 22 situation really as removing the superheater will mean an increase in the water consumption and mean you need to run a hotter fire for the same steam output. Conversely, the gases through the flue without the superheater will be hotter so you'll get more heat transfer through that tube as well as more gas flow, although with such a large diameter flue, most of the hot gas will go straight down the middle of the flue without touching the inside surface so won't do as much as it could. Hope that makes sense!

John

[monkeyhero97]

Actually, come to think of it I have a spare one, because there is defintely a petticoat fitted, maybe it's a different diameter. I think i'm going to leave it off; If I manage to pull 6 adults I'm perfectly fine with that regarding power. It is true though that I consume a lot of water, but with more practice I'll blow off less so less water will be wasted.
Thanks

Marc

[Deleted]

Hi Marc,

The lack of the superheater won't really affect the power or tractive effort of the loco so the loco should still pull a decent load. You will get a wetter exhaust which is just what you are finding.

By the way, the Simplex was designed to run at 110psi but I don't think many owners run it that high.

John

[Deleted]

Hello all, 80 to 100 seems to fit the bill..

[monkeyhero97]

My certs say it can go up to 100 psi. I really hope I will be able to get a chance to test the power of my simplex this march... hopefully my passenger truck won't fall apart. Many of the steamers over here say it will not haul more than 2-3 adults... yet in the UK people say simplexes can haul 8! I wonder if a loco can pull more on a raised track than on the ground.

[smallbrother]

Feb 22, 2015 19:10:49 GMT monkeyhero97 said:

My certs say it can go up to 100 psi. I really hope I will be able to get a chance to test the power of my simplex this march... hopefully my passenger truck won't fall apart. Many of the steamers over here say it will not haul more than 2-3 adults... yet in the UK people say simplexes can haul 8! I wonder if a loco can pull more on a raised track than on the ground.

I was talking about this yesterday to a young lad who frequently drives a 5" Speedy. He put it on the raised track yesterday and commented how much better it steamed - he reckoned he could see the fire much easier and was managing the loco better on the raised track in comparison with ground level running.

[monkeyhero97]

i think that would be a large factor, being able to see the fire. At the moment, its a case of hoping for the best and sprinkling the coal without seeing the fire. I must get better at firing if I want to improve. Likewise, I must get a cold-water supply sorted for my injector. Using the axle pump is a pain as there is such a drop in pressure every time.
Marc

[andyhigham]

In full size, when you open the firehole you can see in an instant where the fire is weak and aim a shovelful in the right direction. I don't pretend to be an expert having only ever fired one full size loco, 4472